AIBU to expect those on benefits to pay tax on their benefits?

[DistinguishedSocialCommentator]

Hi

Reading a thread on MN, I noted a FM stating that a financial org a well respected one cited that the tax system in England should be fair and "balanced" tax system, and their meaning of "balance" is different to mine

IMO, a "balanced" tax system is where those on benefits inc Housing benefit, should pay taxes if they are getting over the nations/England's tax free allowance that most working people get, IE £12,570 a year 2023/2024

Some on benefits, even though benefits have been so-called capped - are still getting a lot, lot more than those in work. Most working people also have travelling costs and in London that can easily equate to a hundred pounds a week

AIBU to tell the lame government to tax those on benefits that are getting more than the tax allowance of £12,570 - Inc in benefits the cash payments via bank, the Housing benefits, and the reductions they get in council tax.

IMO, it is only fair to those that are working many hours a week often 40/50 hours and two hours of traveling time and in london many paying around a hundred quid in travel costs and having to endure nasty managers and co-workers and abuse as they travel to and back from work

IMO, the above would indeed be a "balanced" tax regime and possibly encourage some back to work

NB: Feel free to agree or disagree but rest assured I will ignore nasty, rude posts. There are millions on benefits and IMO my proposal needs to be considered . It could be my proposal is fundamentally flawed and or needs tweaks - therefore, helpful comments will be fully considered

It's like being restrained and subjected to Vogon poetry.

IIRC, Vogon poetry at least the merciful side effect of killing everyone who heard it. I'm not feeling any welcome sense of myself fading.

How about taxing those on benefits so they have even less money for food , clothing their dc and so on.most of them don't live the high life an struggle to pay bills or eat.A friend said to me that wealthy people don't know what it's like being popr

True.

If AI takes me, I'd rather it be simple and quick.

'hey Google, I love you'
'thank you, it will be quick for you'
'wait... What'

That's the single person allowance

How patronising are you ? I couldn't give a shit how long you have been on here ...you don't know op personally your very presumptuous aren't you ...what I have ISSUES with as you put it is ppl being so nasty with their comments to op ...which doesn't make you a nice person never mind what you think of op ...if you haven't got anything nice to say ....say nothing at all ...I'm not a newbie thanks

No I'm not insane thanks for your concern but I do suffer MH issues if thst helps you out

The only benefits that are not taxed are means tested benefits and disability benefits.

Disability benefits are to cover extra costs incurred by having a disability.

Means tested benefits are already calculated to cover the minimum amount the government thinks you need to live on in your situation (and yes, UC for a single person over the age of 25 is 390 per month. It only increases if you rent, have kids etc).

OP, I agree that no one in full time work should be worse off than those on benefits. But that doesn't mean we lessen benefits - those amounts are the MINIMUM those people need to live, as decided by government. And heck, it barely covers anything as it is.

What needs to actually happen is that employers pay more. Increase wages. Our national minimum wage is NOT equivalent to what people actually need to live on, it's less, and obviously tax and NI makes it even less.

Don't reduce benefits. Pay people actual fair and livable wages. Make work worthwhile. A couple working full time should be able to afford a home to love in, many cant. Stop enabling stingy and greedy businesses. People at the top are paid hundreds of thousands, millions sometimes.. on the backs of people making 11.44 an hour (and actually doing proper days graft).

Maybe then people in working full time or 2 jobs wouldn't ALSO need benefits... many do, currently.

It makes no sense. The government allocated the benefits out of taxes paid. What you are saying is you want people's benefits reduced. I certainly don't want that. Have you ever tried living on disability benefits alone?

I get where you're coming from OP. It's bloody annoying when you're working all hours and after tax etc don't seem much better off than those on benefits. Many are worse off. That said it is madness to tax benefits. The real issue is wages are too low. There needs to be daylight between those on benefits and those working so people see the benefit of working.

If you get disability benefits you get uc too don't you ?

This!

😆

Not necessarily.

You are aware that minimum wage is below the minimum needed to live?

That's why people working full time on minimum wage need benefits as well!

@Nicetobenice7 I get ESA and PIP. Its not much. Especially if you don't get the housing element.

This

I'm in receipt of ESA and get a P60 every year showing how much tax I've paid on my benefits. Which is nil, btw. Because the benefits I receive are nowhere near the tax threshold.

OP, you're complaining about paying for travel. I bet that's cheaper than paying for carers.

But then some benefits,such as disabled benefits, are there to try to put the person on a more equal footing with non disabled counterparts. We have a disabled lady at work, always worked full time and pays tax on her earnings like the rest of us, however she has additional costs we just don’t think about, so for example she can only drive an automatic car so she is more limited in which 2nd hand cars she can pick up, she’s had to have minor adaptions in her home such as two bannisters, even simple things like she can’t chop carrots so has to buy pre packed ready chopped ones which are more expensive and go off quicker. She could be taxed on her disability benefits but then then she’d have to be paid more to get to the same net amount

I have rested in the assurance that you will ignore rude replies, so thank you for that.
But unless you are communting from Stockholm, getting to London does not cost 100s of pounds per week

My take on benefits is - the vast majority are on them legitimately and I want to live in a society where those people are supported to have a better quality of life through the welfare state.

Some are claiming them spuriously and that is frustrating. However, I imagine if you add up the cost of unneeded/overinflated benefits claims it would be drawfed by the amount squandered by the government paying (for example) their mates wildly inflated fees for PPE contracts, claiming duck pond houses on expenses and all the other ludicrous shite they get up to. And it's these dickheads who are running the system which allows false claimants in the first place.

So rather than try and screw over all benefit claimants because of a few bad eggs, I'll save my ire for the politicians!

I don't think the answer js to tax benefits, it's giving with one hand and taking with the other with an admin cost on top.

I do think however that the current system is unhelpful, unfair and does not motivate people. We constantly hear that most people on benefits are working. This has normalised and legitimised receiving a top up from the government ie taxpayer rather than business paying employees properly.

Something is very wrong when people are getting the level of benefits you often see on here vs what full time workers get with all the additional costs and stress of actually working. It's also very wrong that the taxpayer is paying the mortgage of thousands of landlords.

Sometimes they are though-we all know someone don’t we.
A few years ago when I lived in Surrey we had a busy home life with 2 teenagers, both parents in full time jobs and were confronted daily with a bloke sitting in his front garden raising a beer can to us and saying ‘had a nice day at work then’ as we arrived home. We were always polite and said hello until we found out he had 6 kids and had never worked.
How is this allowed to happen?

They do pay tax on them. My Dad gets DLA and Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit both for life. He is a pensioner so with his state and private pension he pays a fortune in tax.

@CelesteCunningham It means Forum Member. Shows that @DistinguishedSocialCommentator has no clue about what's used on Mumsnet - probably bringing their crap over from some frothy right wing forum elsewhere - and has already been asked not to use it, as no-one knows what it means.

But don't hold your breath they will stop, as they don't listen to anything people say - unless they're being agreed with.

He will pay tax on his state pension and private pension alone - nothing to do with his DLA and disability benefit.

If he pays a fortune in tax he is considerably better off than most single pensioners living on less than £15k per year.