…to leave a lovely friendship group because of one person?

[Ndujauser]

A bit of background - I’m part of a group of friends who met through a hobby. Six of us to start with, now down to five. Friend six has distanced herself from the group, but some of us see her individually.
We’ve had an annual weekend away together for a few years, plus a few weekends doing our shared hobby, the odd meal out with partners. This year is a big birthday for two of the group, and a more lavish weekend than our usual kind of thing is being planned. All good, except for I’m finding it really difficult to deal with one of the group, let’s call her Sue. She is awful. Rude, lazy, self obsessed, and getting worse. I’ve recently found out from friend six that she left the gang because she feels the same as me about Sue.
The other three women in the group are fantastic, and put up with Sue (because they are nicer people than I am). I’d love to get away for a big weekend with them, but the thought of having to shell out loads of money and have to put up with this mardy baggage isn’t filling me with enthusiasm.
What shall I do? Go along, and keep smiling through gritted teeth? Make an excuse not to be there? Or do what friend six did, and push off out of it?
All suggestions gratefully received.

I'd decline the weekend away, and contact the birthday friends to say you'd like to celebrate with them at another time, and so are inviting them and friend six to lunch at yours, - just the five of you. List the names, so they don't accidentally ask her if she's coming and she ends up tagging along.

I would not go on the expensive holiday. I would be open to other meetups without Sue. She sounds like a pain, music tastes aside. Life is too short.

Go away with friend six. The others can join you if they like but not Sue.

I think if you say to other members that Sue isn’t your cup
of tea so you won’t be holidaying, then maybe they’ll ‘follow’ you and ‘number six’ - think I’d wait for that to happen organically rather than instigate a full-on move. One man’s meat is another’s poison after all, how was Sue in the group originally if no-one really liked her?

🤣🤣 you really do have my sympathies OP, ranting away on here is completely fine and if it helps save group dynamics then please tell us more about Sue!

I wouldn’t leave anyone out like you’ve said, maybe just start seeing people in smaller groups, like one or one or two or three?

Yeah I'm intrigued...did you ever like Sue or did she annoy you from the first time you met? Or was she okay in small doses but going on holidays was when the issues around cleaning/being tight became more apparent? Or has she got worse as time has gone on?

Just say to the others that Number Six left the group because of Dodgy Doreen and you feel the same way that group weekends away are no fun with her.

That gives the others the chance to pop up and say whether they like Dodgy Doreen or not.

Chances are that they can't stand her either and then you can all drop Dodgy Doreen like a ton of bricks.

There’s not many women who do our hobby, so we got lumped together as a group. She’s always been a bit of a moaner, but it became worse when we started going away together. She’s one of those people who always ends up with the best room, because she nips in quick while the rest of us are unloading the car. Then she’ll complain that the crisps are the wrong flavour, and the gin is the wrong brand. And we are all too nice to call her out…

She will forever be Dodgy Doreen to me now.

Yes but the adult way to react to this is to bring it up, ideally at the time, to Sue's face. Not to sneak around inviting all her other friends to things behind her back and leaving her out because of something she might not have even realised she's done .

If she reacts badly then of course OP would then be justified in saying "Look I'm not getting on with Sue, you guys go ahead with the holiday, if any of you want to meet up with me separately I'd love to." That way the ball is in their court, if they then want to all meet up without Sue at least Sue knows why.

You can't say "I don't like someone because they do x"
"Well have you told them not to do x"
"No...I'm just going to moan about them not doing x behind their back, surely that will solve it and not make the situation worse?"

Tbh it sounds like OP just doesn't like Sue (which is fair enough, she sounds awful), and even if they spoke about some of the issues and Sue said "I'm so sorry I didn't realise, I'll cover our first meal out in the holiday and do all the cleaning" OP would still find her other issues like the no sense of humour, rudeness (and taste in music???) annoying.

You can't change other people OP, you can only change your reaction to them. That can include challenging her chore/bill dodging (you cant challenge her sense of humour or taste in music!), don't spend any time with her or put up with her for the sake of spending time with people you do like. I get that some people are so borish/domineering/annoying that they can dictate the atmosphere of the holiday. I'd be inclined to just spend time with people I like and who like me. 👍

Absolutely right that I just don’t like her. And wouldn’t do even if she wasn’t a lazy tightwad. And I guess that’s why I need to be the one to back off. It would be easier if the others weren’t so great, but needs must.

So call her out? That’s not being ‘nice’, that’s collectively being mugs and allowing someone to behave badly repeatedly with no consequences.

Or challenge it head on - ask for the money, point it out. Tell her what she’s doing, call her cheeky if that can be done in a way that’s not going to turn into a drama. I go away with friends quite often and bad behaviour gets called out nicely.

Why should you miss out? Unless she’s intolerable to you now.

Well yes of course I understand people have different opinions...I don't really see how me disagreeing with yours is any different to you first disagreeing with @Workhardcryharder ?

You're entitled to your opinion that several people who have been a collective group since they first met years ago and have always generally met up together, as a group, is exactly the same as your best friend's neighbour's sister that you met once at a bbq, and I'm entitled to think that opinion is....illogical at best.

I just think it's bizarre that so many posters seem to think that it's okay to just cut Sue off for something she doesn't even know she's done. OP has said none of the others in the group challenged Sue when she did any of the objectionable things because they felt that would be too mean/not "nice", yet people are suggesting that going behind her back and setting up a new group or organising a trip or event with all her friends except her ISNT mean? It seems like exactly the teenage clique bullying behaviour that women get a bad name for.

For me I'd find it far less hurtful for someone to say "hey x you're the only one who hasn't bought a round, cough up" than to wonder why the WhatsApp group has suddenly gone quiet and then see a photo on Instagram or wherever of all my closest friends on holiday without me. As others have said there have been lots of posts on MN from the "Sue's" POV and those women have been devastated.

OP is perfectly within her rights to dislike Sue, who does sound like a pain but the way to handle that is either to address the behaviour directly with her like a grown up or to just step away from the group, and then if other members want to meet up separately, that's fair enough.

You might find the others also just don’t like her but they are too scared to say so/trying to be nice. I imagine some are inviting her because they don’t want to me mean.

However when I was at uni the girl in the room next to me was awful. 30 years later I still hate her guts, she was a total phoney. The other girls loved her and eventually I got pushed out because they thought she was great.
I know they had trouble with her in year 2 as they actually found out what she was like. I then got invited to her hen do! So I think that means so did others.

I would speak to 6 and see what she knows and then to each other member individually and say, I’m not coming, that woman spoils it for me and it’s not fun anymore. You might get an honest response of what they think of her really.

Messages sent to the other 3. I’ve said I’m sorry to be dropping out, but I’ve come to the end of the road with Sue, and I’m hoping the four of us can have a birthday dinner at mine.
One has come back already with “I’m not coming if you don’t”.
And to PPs who have said we should call her out on her behaviour, there’s been plenty of times when we have done so in a kind of jokey way, but it’s never sunk in.

It sounds like you’re not alone in your Sue issues (is-Sues, if you will?). Maybe this is the impetus you need to tackle it…

Well how about you organise something with the one who messaged back and friend number six?

Saying that I would probably go if I liked 4 of them and just ignore her! Or worse if it was my PMDD week!

lol you must update us when Sue realises she’s been excused from your birthday dinner! She won’t be happy……

I thought I read an update saying that the rest of the group ‘put up with Sue’, ie don’t actually like her.

I might have made that up though!

Loving your work!

Sorry but this doesn't sit well with me.

OP you are of course well within your rights not to socialise with someone you don't care for but I think if it's a group formed around a hobby, i.e. she will still have to see you for the hobby unless she quits that, it's a bit mean to just to try and circumvent her without having at least tried to seriously address the main issues which are not contributing to drinks and chores on meetups.

She clearly has a thick skin so needs addressing head on. I know this isn't ideal given you don't really want her as a pal anyway. However I would have tried seriously to meet her on a level rather than in a jokey way she doesn't understand then behind her back.

That way you at least know you've been up front, generous and mature with someone who thought they were part of a friendship group.

Obviously you don't have to. But I do think 'we've been too nice to call her out' is bollocks. And how does her music taste affect you? If she wants to play thrash metal in the air BnB all the time then again, address it head on.

I just think this could lead to her losing her hobby group as well as her friendship group and you could at least try to seriously ask her for some consideration seeing as you have been to many events with her there.

I'm sure this will be written off as 'be kind' nonsense but I'm a believer in having difficult conversations rather than avoiding them.

I agree with this poster, better to put your big girl knickers on, be assertive and tell the woman how it's going to be on the next trip. If she wants to go she stick to the rules. Money in the kitty or Splitwise. She does chores allocated and no thrash metal.
if she don't like it, you've got the result of her self excluding. If she stick to the rules, you've got a good group member.
i really don't like the start a new group without her ghosting advice