To wonder about the OP whose daughter had ASD and she was going zero tolerance any associated behaviour for the happiness of her other child, herself and husband.

[Shestolemyboyfriend]

I remember a poster who had a daughter with Autism and was having meltdowns due to beig overstimulated al lot of the time. I think there were issues around misophonia around eating , control over the TV etc and who could be in the room at any time. The OP decided that the needs of the few were outweighing the needs of the many and had decided she wasn't going to engage with any of the behaviour any more as it was making the rest of the family miserable. She had everyone divided but it sounded so hard for the whole family with a seemingly no win situation. I wonder how she fared and how it all panned out. I have a friend in a similar situation and she is doing the same with her son, after some kick back the dynamic is totally different. I just wondered how it worked for her.

I guess I just don't understand what's patronising about it, because the reality is that I did need to be trained/taught how to handle certain scenarios.

I get that the word "training" maybe has undesirable connotations, but the reality is that my parents did train me on how to do certain things, because they knew that learning those things was essential to my long-term success. For example, they taught me how to cope with the sensory overwhelm that comes with brushing my teeth and washing my hair. They did that by training me to accept certain things over a period of time, within the limits of my autism.

And you know what? I'm incredibly grateful for all their hard work, because my life as an adult is much, much easier as a result.

No but everyone knows that practise helps - for absolutely every skill. Even emotional and social skills.

It'll of course be harder for those with asd, but if anything I think they need more help, guidanve and coaching to help them fit in, not less than everyone else.

It'll of course be harder for those with asd, but if anything I think they need more help, guidanve and coaching to help them fit in, not less than everyone else.

But why should they HAVE to “fit in”? Why can’t people make adjustments for them?

I can really relate to this. My youngest dd is 17 and ASD and we have allowed things to escalate to the point of her having way too much control. I am in the process of trying to change things.

Surely it's a two way street, that everybody makes adjustments for each other. It doesn't have to be either/or. The person who doesn't like noise can wear headphones and the person who needs noise can maybe lower the volume just a bit.

We're all in such a state of win/lose that compromise falls completely by the wayside.

Obviously ideally everyone's needs would be accommodated in the world, but life isn't like that, so is it kind to protect them from the realities of the world? I imagine they'll have a horrific adulthood if they're bought up totally unprepared.

Companies can employ whoever they like. Partners can choose whoever they want to be ina relationship. The world is going to be much harder for asd people.

I don't think saying "the world should make adjustments for you" is particularly good for these people, when the world just doesn't. If anything I think it's quite cruel and will set them up for a lifetime of being disappointed.

@Shestolemyboyfriend
Thank you for starting this thread. I have found reading it very useful to get different perspectives.
@stargirl1701 I'm really glad things have improved. I totally endorse going to separate rooms, especially after school etc (but two of my children share, so I keep the youngest downstairs with me). My 10 Yr old DD doesn't have any diagnosis but regularly meltdown after school.

My DS, aged 8, has ASD. I try not to force him to do things that he finds stressful, but rather give him more time to think about it, voice his concerns and complaints to me, but many things I make it clear that he may say no now, but it will be happening at some stage within X period of time. So for example, he hates showering. I don't let him not wash. I offer more time to consider, complain, cry, tantrum. But the shower is going to happen before sleep, and once he ĥas had lots of reassurance and time to process, he feels safe showering with my help and agrees to it.
Today he didn't want to go to church. I have already reduced it to twice a month which is mainly to reduce stress on him. He screamed, cried, threatened violence. I said it was fine to wait, we didn't need to go at 10... we could go at 11, or 12, or 6pm. But we would go. Eventually he decided himself to go, bring his Dogman book, and he was *(appeared) fine after a few minutes, asking me questions about the ceremony etc. In fact he never wants to go anywhere. So if I didn't push back we would never leave the house. But once he is somewhere he likes it.
So I suppose my point is that I don't think it's about forcing people to do things that cause them pain, but giving more time to come to terms with and prepare for doing them, and trying to do them in the least stressful way for them, so they feel safe. If that makes any sense.

Because we are a social animal and even within cultural differences, there are some social norms that apply, if you cant develop those or dont understand those your life is going to be pretty difficult. You may not have the friendship group you want, you may continually get into difficulties and arguments with your neighbours. You may find work suitable for you but theres a number of things within that you need to cope with, even with reasonable adjustments (and the key word there is reasonable, thats what the law allows, you cant just do any old job without the ability because you think an employer needs to adjust for you), you may not find the partner you want and be lonely, you may find yourself on the wrong side of the law

Someone in a wheelchair? No problem, legit disability and everyone is happy to make reasonable adjustments

As a wheelchair user this is actually bollocks though, many people refuse to make reasonable adjustments and many people assume I don't have a legit disability.

I asked that once on another forum, how to tell between a normal tantrum and autistic meltdown. I was told that there is no such thing as a tantrum in asd kids and they are all meltdowns they can’t control.

Well, I've never actually said that so I really don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth and making me out to be something I'm not.

Of course every autistic child (and adult) is different and what worked for me and my situation may not work for someone else, but that doesn't make my opinion any less valid or relevant to the discussion.

I don't see what's so offensive about the word "train" though, it just means to teach or to instruct or to coach. Which is exactly what helps many autistic people learn to manage in the real world.

Yeah I was going to say - London in particular is so inaccessible when you're in a wheelchair. There's so little adjustments on public transport etc, it's pitiful.

But slightly going off on a tangent there...

To what extent? Using the TV/lights/sound control needs on this thread, should 3 members of a family never get to watch TV of of their choice, turn the lights on at home and not be allowed to speak to each other because 1 member wants it so?

The world is going to be much harder for asd people.

Yes, it is harder.

But it’s made even harder when people insist that we have to change ourselves to fit in, rather than meeting us halfway.

Yes Ive seen this too on countless threads, its complete rubbish.

Children are children first, with all of the associated behaviours that come with growing up! ASD children have tantrums and they also have meltdowns.

No, but the person with ASD also doesn’t need to be in the same room as people eating / watching TV if they don’t want to. They can go to their own space which they can adjust as necessary, maybe have their own TV they can control?

But the reality is that sometimes, they will have to be in situations that make them uncomfortable, so surely it's better that they're taught coping techniques from childhood, rather than being thrown in the deep end with no way of managing their feelings or no way of knowing how to cope?

My DM has cerebral palsy. Wheelchair user. I’m her carer and have been since my parents divorced when I was 8.

I was also my DF’s sole carer until he died. He had a progressive neurological condition and ended up in a wheelchair. His condition included an aggressive dementia so I had to advocate for him, and work out what was needed. He wasn’t well enough to be able to communicate his needs, sadly.

My whole life - since childhood- has revolved around supporting wheelchair users. I was a child carer.

Being in such close proximity to wheelchair users my whole life has made me acutely aware that I have no idea what it’s like to live with a physical condition daily. How the smallest thing needs to be considered differently. I still fuck up and miss things when I’m trying to organise things for my DM (I’m her carer). And that’s because I’m not a wheelchair user myself.

Never for a second would I claim to know what it’s like, or to know better than the person in the chair. And therein lies the crucial difference. NT people on this thread are contradicting what autistic people are saying, and dismissing their opinions because they think they know better.

Also, just for reference, of course I was making a sweeping generalisation re accommodations that are made. But the vast, vast majority of places will go out of their way to accommodate a physically disabled person wherever they can. It’s not typically viewed as unreasonable to ask for a lift, a ramp, seating near the front, lower worktops etc. Lots of accommodations already exist because the law requires them to be in place. People, on the whole, are generally obliging. And I know this because I’ve been the one to have to ask on behalf of my mum, and previously my dad. And I’ve been doing it now for over 40 years.

People are not so obliging when it comes to making accommodations for invisible disabilities, especially conditions they consider to be made up or inflated, such as autism and ADHD. There are very few accommodations already in place.

Life as a wheelchair user is fucking hard, and of course not everything is accessible. But I’m referencing the general attitudes - people are USUALLY understanding and apologetic if things are hard/not accessible. Thats absolutely not the case for disability related to neurodivergence.

This thread is a great example - it’s full of posters saying how autistic people need to just suck it up and learn to adapt. There would NEVER be a post about someone with mobility problems where posters say it’s just tough, and they need to try harder with their mobility because otherwise they’ll never fit in with the world.

But as an adult it is possible to arrange your life in such a way that these things are minimised.

I’m not against coping techniques to reduce distress.

But there is an underlying current on this thread of expecting people with ASD to learn to pretend that they don't have autism.

Perhaps the family cant afford another telly, perhaps they dont agree with children having tellys in their bedrooms, perhaps the child shares a bedroom, perhaps they are insisting on using the main living room to the exlusion of others

That is what is being discussed here, not a situation where there is a clear solution which meets everyones needs. Sometimes not everyones needs can be accommodated

@stargirl1701 thank you so much for coming back. I hope you and your family are okay x

perhaps they dont agree with children having tellys in their bedrooms

Then they can adjust their expectations, can’t they? If that is something that would help.

Every single person in every society in the world needs to be trained to supress their own needs to fit in with their society. Every single one. If they are not, they will be excluded/outcast/unemployable/imprisoned whatever that particular society does to the individuals who wont conform. Autistic people are not exempt from this

Where has anyone said they want people to pretend they're not autistic?

Minimising your chances of feeling uncomfortable is great (and I do it myself all the time!) but the reality is that you can't do it 24/7 and sometimes you will find yourself in situations that cause you stress and overwhelm.

If, from childhood, you've never been taught how to manage those situations, you're going to find it almost impossible to cope as an adult. You may not cope perfectly - you may still stim, or need to use noise-cancelling earphones, you may need to excuse yourself occasionally - but you'll only learn about doing those things if you've been taught them as a child, and if you've previously experienced situations you don't like.

Teaching autistic children to just shut themselves in their rooms to avoid overload isn't helpful long-term.

And people thinking like you are a reason why the world is so shit for disabled people. It's sad to read really.