To wonder about the OP whose daughter had ASD and she was going zero tolerance any associated behaviour for the happiness of her other child, herself and husband.

[Shestolemyboyfriend]

I remember a poster who had a daughter with Autism and was having meltdowns due to beig overstimulated al lot of the time. I think there were issues around misophonia around eating , control over the TV etc and who could be in the room at any time. The OP decided that the needs of the few were outweighing the needs of the many and had decided she wasn't going to engage with any of the behaviour any more as it was making the rest of the family miserable. She had everyone divided but it sounded so hard for the whole family with a seemingly no win situation. I wonder how she fared and how it all panned out. I have a friend in a similar situation and she is doing the same with her son, after some kick back the dynamic is totally different. I just wondered how it worked for her.

my points stand- willfully ignoring a child’s needs is traumatic. The stats say it all, other people have said it I don’t need to repeat them.

Most people aren't talking about ignoring a child's needs, though. They're talking about managing the needs of one person against the (different) needs of everyone else in the home.

I'm autistic myself and I'm eternally grateful that my parents had boundaries and taught me that certain behaviours weren't okay at certain times. I'm also glad they helped me overcome my sensory issues around maintaining personal hygiene - especially with brushing teeth and taking showers.

Helping autistic people cope with the real world isn't about ignoring their needs, it's about helping them balance their needs with other people's, and about teaching them appropriate ways of dealing with (eg) sensory overload or overwhelm without controlling other people's environments in order to do so.

@stargirl1701 Thanks for coming back with an update - I am so glad you have seen and felt some improvement for things in your family. I have a 24 year old ASD daughter - who is now able to express that learning to manage her meltdowns ( by withdrawing to her room or a safe space ) was a game changer for her and makes her feel more in control. She now often listens to music or watches You Tube and calms down before the meltdown stage. It's a long journey, and you have made a good start.

My DD has a number of sensory sensitivities which impact on us all. I try to find a middle ground. For example she hates sand and going to the beach and hates warm weather. She spent years freaking out at just the thought of going to the beach. But we still go on seaside trips from time to time and make adjustments. She appreciates that I no longer force it on her, which I tried to do initially but I don't just accept it either. She is getting a lot better and trying to fit into family life. I don't think us never going to the beach because she doesn't like it would do her any favours later in life.

Thank you @Rainbowhermit It was a difficult decision. She adapted far more quickly than I predicted she could. The Easter holiday past she only had one meltdown and it was contained in her own bedroom.

I think she had just continued the screaming, kicking and hitting from toddlerhood as it was the 'easiest' option. There were more neural pathways for that response in meltdown. She used intense scribbling and writing during that last meltdown as the 'outlet'. It's far more appropriate for an 11 year old than resorting to violence.

Worked perfectly for my DC. She no longer vocal stims

Worked fine in our house

It depends on what you mean by being themselves and whether that has a negative impact on other family members. All children need a safe home environment not just children on the spectrum.

My autistic son was aggressive when younger. I had to have a zero tolerance approach to that otherwise my other children and myself would have been hit plus other children at school. He had to learn that no matter how frustrated/angry he felt, hitting another person could not be an outlet to release that.

@mt9m so you believe that if parents don't let their child, even as an adult do whatever they want whenever they want the child/adult is likely to become suicidal and likely to act on it? That's appalling emotional blackmail.

That must be very difficult, how old is your son now? Does he still hit you?

Doesn’t it depend what the other person says they will have zero tolerance of though?

zero tolerance of all things autism does sound like what you describe and would be abusive and unreasonable.

zero tolerance of behaviours which aim to control others seems to be what the original OP had been saying. I don’t think refusing to accept that is abusive at all. Quite the contrary. It’s recognising that when ASD related need to control is impacting on the wellbeing of other members of the family, including other children, that this has become a form of abuse (albeit unintentionally) and that a line has to be drawn. I don’t think adopting a zero tolerance of behaviours that control others is abusive.

There is too much I would like to say here. I would caution people to understand that profound autism with a co morbidity like learning difficulties is a different beast altogether. The process to change behaviours can be years in the making. What you might see are concessions/not being strict enough but you have no idea of the progress made to get to that point even if the behaviours are still outwardly negative. The improvements can be small and decidedly incremental.

Honestly, Id find it very hard to take a critique from someone who does not live this life making parenting judgements on their outside perspective. I do agree that teaching appropriate behaviour is incredibly important as are reasonable adjustments. It's different for every child and takes more time than some of you could ever know or understand. Someone could look at me and think I've not been strict enough when actually we've worked so hard to even get where we are. We are on a different timeline altogether.

I think I realised something from my original thread that is being repeated here. Some posters really struggle to separate their own experience from my daughter's. Some posters see parenting in very black and white terms.

Balancing the needs of all family members is nuanced. My child's experience is not your childhood repeated.

This sounds like a really positive step forward, I’m please you’ve made improvements.

Surely all this depends on the individual & the degree of autism involved.

My friend wouldn't accept that her child was ND he was tall and strong, would be physically aggressive at nursery, then primary school. Then secondary school. Her solution keep changing schools. He was no problem at home she said, well maybe was but because he was allowed to do anything he wanted or bribed with sweets he was less stressed. When he smashed things up at home it was because of nasty people at school who had upset him.

He was expelled finally, from secondary school went to college, discovered drugs, became a dealer was jailed for GBH.

The prison saved him because there were rules his sister told us. Mum and dad just gave into every demand. His sister had an unhappy childhood, they're not close but she's glad he no longer rules the roost for her mother's sake.

He came out of prison with a trade, he lives alone but is happier. He works, has a social life, a girlfriend.

As an HE lecturer , I wish parents would bear this in mind. Students whose parents have encouraged them to try to do things and face their fears do much better and seem much happier and calmer. Those who seem permanently miserable in my experience are the ones who have no coping strategies and complete refuse to consider trying to develop any. We are implementing very significant adjustments for some students now - but I cannot see how future employers will be able to manage their expectations.

On the home front, I would not allow a child to dictate home leisure activities and how & when everyone eats. I’d be happy to try to put compromises in place but would not let one child basically control family life.

As many other have said, it really is a balancing act. I grew up without anyone recognising my autism. My parents had no tolerance for my 'differences' and nor did school. I ended up with serious mental health difficulties and spent eight years in-and-out of eating disorder units. Many adults who grew up without their needs being recognised had a similar experience.

That said, I do not feel we should panda to a child's every need. We have an autistic child and it really is a balance. We are actually considering home Ed for secondary, but it's not around d protecting him so much as enabling g him. He already finds schools a real challenge and needs hours to recover. We suspect he was be more overwhelmed at secondary and have no other life. He copes much better in the holidays and is a different child. We have thought long and hard about whether this is detrimental to him, but no matter how hard I try, I cannot cope with full-time work, and I suspect he won't. No amount of 'training' or exposure has changed that for me. Sometimes with autism, it's about finding out one's limits and working to them.

Lots of autistic people also grow hateful and depressed when denied the one thing that they enjoyed. Also, 'trainig' an autistic person, ffs.

It is hard as a parent to try to get that balance right, and some days you do let things go for an easy life.

but as with any young person to role of the parents is to help that person grow to be the best version of themselves they can be. That will look different for everyone but we still need to try to equip them with the skills as best as they can. Nobody should be forced to hide who they are, or be unable to relax in their own home but at the same time they need to understand that other people have needs and feelings too.

I think part of the problem, seen regularly on MN, is that we have people who aren’t ND themselves deciding what’s best for people who are ND.

Just because your child is ND, or you teach/work with ND people does not mean you get to speak over what ND people are telling you.

So often ND voices are spoken over by NT people who have some experience of living/working with ND people. That is NOT the same thing. Until you experience things for yourself, you have no idea what it’s like. None. And it shows in the comments made here.

Neither myself or any of the other ND voices here are suggesting that ND children should always get their own way. The full needs of the family need to be balanced and considered, and there are often conflicting needs which makes it hard for everyone.

I remember the last post and I’m so pleased that the OP is finding a way that works for her family. It’s bloody tough for parents, but don’t forget it’s tough for the kids too. They’re not “being difficult” for a laugh.

The problem is that NT people often view success as training an ND child to mask well and pass. Suppress their own needs. Thats what’s been repeated in many posts on this thread, often with misplaced pride. In the majority of cases this approach causes psychological damage which typically manifests as a burn out in the end. You might not see it yet. It might take years to reach this point but it’s so frequently the case for autistic adults who weren’t helped to develop healthy coping mechanisms. And by that I’m talking about mechanisms which are designed to support the needs of the autistic person rather than being designed to make the people around them happier.

Just for emphasis, I am at no point saying violence is acceptable. I am referring to all of the other behaviours being described. An autistic person never has cart blanche to hurt anyone else.

Of course us autistic folk still have to function in a world which is desperately lacking in compassion. Someone in a wheelchair? No problem, legit disability and everyone is happy to make reasonable adjustments. Autistic people though? Nah. They have to fit in with the rest of the world and fuck how much harm it does. Asking for adjustments is seen as unreasonable because you can just train autistic people to look more socially acceptable. So much better, right?!

Gah.

What 'one thing that they enjoyed' are you talking about someone being denied?

Because this thread is talking about people being controlling of others, or harmful to others, or aggressive/rude/violent/breaking things/emotionally abusing and manipulating the household

No one is talking about being able to move about, or stim or do hobbies or have time out.

The abuse that is created to others in the household from controlling and manipulative behaviours is never or rarely acknowledged here. Unless its from a husband though. Then there is a recognition that no matter where the behaviour is coming from (MH, ADHD, ASD) it is still abusive.

That also stands for teenagers.

My DD is in a mainstream school and although she performs at a high level academically, there are lots of aspects of daily life that she struggles with, especially as a teenage girl interacting with lots of other teenage girls.

I wouldn’t say I go as far as zero tolerance as I personally feel that would be massively damaging to my teen DD, however I do ‘train’ her how to cope with and navigate situations as one day she will have to live without me and I am adamant that her younger siblings do not become her carers.

I draw boundaries like PP have done. There’s a big-ish age gap between DD and her youngest sibling. She’d be very distressed by his crying or loud play as a baby/toddler and would want me to tell him to stop.

I didn’t believe it was right (or possible!) to discourage a toddler from playing so instead I worked with DD to help her manage. We did this by investing in noise cancelling headphones, reminding DD to wear them and keeping noisy toddler activities on the opposite floor to where DD was where possible.