To wonder about the OP whose daughter had ASD and she was going zero tolerance any associated behaviour for the happiness of her other child, herself and husband.

[Shestolemyboyfriend]

I remember a poster who had a daughter with Autism and was having meltdowns due to beig overstimulated al lot of the time. I think there were issues around misophonia around eating , control over the TV etc and who could be in the room at any time. The OP decided that the needs of the few were outweighing the needs of the many and had decided she wasn't going to engage with any of the behaviour any more as it was making the rest of the family miserable. She had everyone divided but it sounded so hard for the whole family with a seemingly no win situation. I wonder how she fared and how it all panned out. I have a friend in a similar situation and she is doing the same with her son, after some kick back the dynamic is totally different. I just wondered how it worked for her.

@Shestolemyboyfriend

Hello, I was the poster you were remembering.

Honestly some of the saddest encounters I’ve had with parents are related to their growing realisation their child will likely be at home FT. And I do feel the extremely low demand environment that my work environment has created has contributed to this. That being said there are instances where I feel that approach is beneficial in the short to medium term for example where self harm and injurious behaviours prevail.

In relation to the auditory stimulation I do agree this is something to consider and an area where employers can make reasonable accomodations but something I have encountered is allowing individuals make unrestricted noise (I’m not referring to vocal stims) but also facilitating no one else making any noise. This for me is problematic because it represents a move towards unrealistic expectations of the world which may contribute to poorer outcomes in the long term

And many more end up with serious mental health problems as all they have been ‘taught’ is to mask continuously which comes back to bite everyone on their bum

@WaitingForMojo
Firstly I haven't said in what way you should attempt to modify behaviour.

I understand the idea that in a period of intense stress trying to adapt behaviour may result in the opposite.
However, in the day to day I disagree that exposing children to children with ASD to situations which are not 100% to their liking or that they cannot control entirely is abusive.
I don't agree that expecting children with ASD to learn to also accomodate others is harmful to them.

I'm also unsure what you mean by saying that by encouraging them to do so you are "asking them to behave in a way contrary to their neurology".
Is trying to help someone with Dyslexia learn to read going against their neurology too? What about organisational techniques for someone with ADHD to stay on top of day to day life? Would these be abusive in your opinion?

They've already got problems so not sure what your point is

Well done OP it sounds like this was the right thing to do. DS1 is autistic and takes himself to his room on return from trips out etc. It's best for him and his siblings.

I don’t recognise the thread but I am interested as I am in a similar position with an asd teenager. My teen is very aggressive and has been for ten years to the point of regularly beating me up and trashing the house for hours on end. They were permanently excluded from two schools and they were not in education at all for two years.

I am a single parent and they are the only child at home. If I had a partner and other children, the family would have broken down years ago and my teen would have been removed and taken into care, probably at the age of 10 or 11. This was discussed with social services and it became very close.

This is an interesting discussion. I think family life is affected whether you ‘kick back’ against the behaviours or try to accommodate them.

Clearly this didn't work for you. Try explaining why it was so difficult though, as simply lashing angrily out at other posters doesn't foster understanding.

Having had a very negative experience yourself, what would you suggest?

(I'll read on to see if you've already answered this)

Lovely ableist threat.

’Training’ is a very broad term. I am sorry you had a rough time, not all of it will be like that. It’s not a single universal experience.

My point is that a lot of the so called ‘training’ especially the full on stuff just teaches the person to mask continuously.
All that does is make the likelihood of major mental health issues much higher when the person can no longer cope with constantly masking and never being allowed to show their true selves.
My ds is perfectly Able to have manners, cope for short periods etc out of house as he has a safe base to return home too. A base that allows him to be himself.
We had a friend whose child was put through the sunrise programme.. very intensively and apparently it was a ‘magic cure’ as he could then behave ‘normally’ at home and outside. That same young man is now dead as he simply couldn’t cope with no base of safety.
Also calling ‘it problems’ is offensive

My daughter has ASD and was treated like her NT brother. She regularly thanks me for my zero tolerance approach. We were never unkind but we were very blunt "If you do things like this you will not have many friends and life will be harder for you" was a regular statement.

People discussing not just letting other people with an ASD diagnosis do whatever they like and hang the consequences on themselves or others is not ableist.

How about the posters on here who said that actually, being pushed back against was beneficial in the long run? Is their experience more or less valid?

And I think it’s awful that other posters are resorting to dragging out the suicide of other people as an argument against constructive debate. It’s emotional blackmail at best -“see, if you don’t do exactly what they want, they’ll kill themselves!”

None of this is about saying that autism doesn’t exist, or that it’s due to shit parenting or whatever number of myriad ways people wilfully misinterpret this thread. It’s about saying that without a proper debate, including things that people with diagnoses may not like or want to hear, we will never be able to move forward.

Trying to shut down discussion by name calling doesn't help anyone. You have no idea in what proportion of posters posting here are also ND.

Here is my original thread:

be done with autism www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amibeing_unreasonable/4846759-to-be-done-with-autism

Did your friend do the same and the son is no longer dominating the family dynamic? Sounds interesting. Has it become more positive for the rest of the family?

I didn’t say that. I did not say if you don’t do want they want they will kill themselves. If you read my post correctly you will see that I said a lot of the training goes too far, doesn’t give the person a safe base where they can be themselves. I also said that my ds has learnt how to cope outside the home as he has the support he needs at home to be himself.

I think I remember, she was also being consistently violent to her sister and their toys. Sounded stressful for all involved.

Yeah, loads probably- like myself. Don’t really understand your point? Wilfully ignoring a child’s needs is traumatic and ableist, and disgusting I think actually.

do I know how hard it is to bring up ND children where their needs are often detrimental to the whole families needs, yes.

I have two autistic children. About 6 months before her GCSEs the eldest became super controlling. Refused to work in her room on her desk and insisted on the table on the lounge. No one else was allowed to move her stuff and she screamed if you entered her room or dated go move - it escalated until myself and the youngest could not speak in the kitchen as it was disturbing her - at that point I packed her off to school (during study leave) every day and the more controlled environment in the library was successful.

This year she was writing an essay for an a level and again started getting very angsty and taking it out on us. I must admit that I saw what was happening and nipped it in the bud. First of all noise cancelling headphones and she was allowed her room but no work out of it at all. Just put a stop to it. She doesn’t like it - she wants zones eg her room is a tip but it’s her mess and she wants a separate study. But we don’t have one.

A phone jail works very well and insisting all gadgets out of her room after 10 pm so no laptop or iPad. But the controlling aspect of who watches what etc she is highly manipulative eg I sit down and load iplayer and she used to carry the remotes around so I couldn’t access them - I sit down and she immediately says ‘let’s watch hustle’ and then will get her brother to ask. They will both put pressure on. But I will deliberately push back and say ‘no. We are watching something new’ -both children want to watch something on repeat all the time and not anything new

My autistic daughter is relentless in trying to control her environment and mine. Temperature, lighting etc I refuse to allow her to effect anything out of her room. I will compromise for example certain scents she finds overwhelming so I don’t buy that but I do insist that she has to brush her teeth (she hates this again sensory)

@Mouldyfoot
I'll explain my point again.
You seem to be presuming that the posters you disagree with are NT, I am telling you that you have no idea whether or not they are.
I have decades and decades of experience of living, living with bringing up ND.
Calling people you don't agree with ableist without contributing to the discussion is not helpful to anyone.

@Isittimeformynapyet have you read the thread yet

I’m not assuming anything, I think that’s you here. It doesn’t matter if the contributors are ND or not, my point still stands. There is also a thing as internalised albleism, which I’m sure many people experience and don’t realise.

my points stand- willfully ignoring a child’s needs is traumatic. The stats say it all, other people have said it I don’t need to repeat them.

But this isn’t about willfully ignoring a child’s needs. It’s about what happens when those needs come into conflict with other people’s needs, and about what really is a need vs what is a behavioural response that may or may not be rooted in a diagnosed condition, particular environment, or a combination of all of the above.