To wonder about the OP whose daughter had ASD and she was going zero tolerance any associated behaviour for the happiness of her other child, herself and husband.

[Shestolemyboyfriend]

I remember a poster who had a daughter with Autism and was having meltdowns due to beig overstimulated al lot of the time. I think there were issues around misophonia around eating , control over the TV etc and who could be in the room at any time. The OP decided that the needs of the few were outweighing the needs of the many and had decided she wasn't going to engage with any of the behaviour any more as it was making the rest of the family miserable. She had everyone divided but it sounded so hard for the whole family with a seemingly no win situation. I wonder how she fared and how it all panned out. I have a friend in a similar situation and she is doing the same with her son, after some kick back the dynamic is totally different. I just wondered how it worked for her.

My DS has ASD now 32. I always felt that he would one day have to live in this world without me so determined that he had to learn how to. DD is 2 years younger so I used her as a comparator. He still has his idiosyncrasies but he knows what is and isn’t acceptable in the presence of others and has grown up as a kind friendly and likeable man

The advice I have had from professionals is that children with autism are more than capable of accepting boundaries, however you have to use your judgment as to whether they can cope with that at any given time.
For example if they are having a very difficult time at school, experiencing high anxiety and in a constant state of fight or flight then it is likely imposing more boundaries could be catastrophic to them. However if they are managing reasonably well then this is a good time to start trying to introduce positive behaviour and boundaries.

I have had experience of both, my son went through a period of burn out and we were getting hours of violence and meltdowns daily. We tried maintaining usual boundaries and expectations and the behaviour got worse and worse. We then reduced all expectations and gradually the anxiety and meltdowns reduced. We then slowly started reintroducing expectations again.
As with so many things there is no fixed right or wrong. But rather using your judgement and trial and error to try and make things better. Much will be very depend on where the young person with autism is at.
There is a saying that if you have met one autistic person you have met one autistic person. Autism can present in many different ways and what works for one will be different for another. For those that have had a firm boundary approach and had good results, that is fantastic for you and your child. But please be mindful that this may not be the right approach for other children and doesn’t mean that just because it worked for you then you it is the ‘right’ approach.

As an add on, for those saying them or their older children had boundaries when they were young and it benefited them. It is worth bearing in mind that external factors have changed massively in recent times. A very ridged and results based school system, mixed with screens and social media, is causing huge impacts on young people that just wasn’t a trigger years ago. My experience with knowing both young autistics and late diagnosed is that the stresses being faced on a daily basis atm is putting many people into a constant fight or flight, whereas in the past children were not under the same amount of daily pressure and so had much more ability to cope.

'Training' ?!! Autistic people aren't dogs ffs

@WaitingForMojo PDA isn't a sensory issue.

I agree with this completely. All children need to be supported to push themselves a little and to develop their skills as best they can, so no pandering to NT or ND children, but all children also deserve to be understood, supported and loved exactly as they are. It’s a very difficult balance to strike, and as parents and teachers we’ll get it wrong sometimes, but if kids know we’re trying our best too, they’ll forgive us like we forgive them when they make mistakes.

I am using the word training because it is a direct quote from a severely autistic friend of mine who said "thank goodness I have parents who taught me, and if they couldn't teach me they trained me"

@greyandbluewool

'What would be the best option do you feel?
• The person does not attend because they and their family know they can't cope with it.
• The person or their family try to tell the hosts to adapt all the event for this one family member.
• The person attends knowing that they may find some things a bit difficult but will manage and will also enjoy other parts such as seeing family.'

You very conveniently forgot * The person has a meltdown then every fucker present judges them and their family and it act makes it much harder to for them to participate in future.

@clearmoon

Is that supposed to be an excuse? Because it's not.

I'm autistic and went to a mainstream independent school. My dad is also autistic. There are plenty of things I struggled with but I'm infinitely glad that my parents worked on helping me cope with "normality" and didn't just let me shut myself away because it was easier.

They helped me overcome a lot of sensory issues too - obviously I still find them challenging, but I was taught how to cope and in turn, that's made adulthood a lot easier to manage.

Nobody's saying they are. I'm autistic myself btw.

I agree the word "training" isn't ideal but autistic children should get help in order to cope with normal, everyday life - like eating with other people, the sensory issues around having a shower or bath, noisy situations etc.

Obviously how much they can "adapt" will vary massively depending on the person but being autistic isn't a reason to never learn how to manage in society.

I agree with this. From my experience with an autistic 7yo with high needs, you have to be in a place of safety before you can expect them to stretch their boundaries and try new things. There's no point in enforcing boundaries or trying to make them polite if they are anxious and dysregulated, it just makes it worse for them.

So for us that means initially dropping expectations and boundaries (aside from safely and health). When they're ready then yes absolutely, let's try a boundary, let's stretch and try something new. Not ready yet? Ok let's leave it and try again another time - when we feel safe, not because we are meeting the expectations of other people. It's about playing the long game.

I worry of course about making the wrong decisions - it's easy to look at others and feel like you're not preparing your child enough, not helping them engage with others, or helping them to cope with school, or teaching them life skills. I'm really sad that it looks like mainstream is not working and we may have to find an alternative. But I can't push faster than the rate my child can cope with.

I might get shredded for saying this but here goes.
Is it just me that thinks as soon as an older child or teen hears that they might be on the spectrum for anything some of them play on it just to get their own way when in fact there is nothing wrong with them.
And as soon as some parents hear it they change and use it as an excuse.
Im NOT saying this is the case for all familys has ive seen myself the struggle
some have to live with.
But i have seen some teens play on it and some parents dont help when they constantly say he or she cant help it they have SEN.
Which makes me think why its so hard for some familys to get help when they really need it.
Because they wont be believed my aunt is a GP and she says that 7 out of 15 young kids and teens she seen are copying symptoms from online.
And when they are not diagnosed the parents keep coming back.
Which makes it harder for a general family to get the help they need.
She said she has seen a rise in the past 4 years and more so in the last 2 years of her GP practice of parents coming in asking for SEN referrals for diagnosis when they dont need one.

What some children need is good parenting not extreme gentle parenting and to know the world is not given to you if you act up your not always gonna get your way. But yet again if i child is told of at school the parents and child call it abuse because their child has SEN and cant help what they do child wins again.

I can imagine how it impacts relationships. Me and my DB butt heads a lot even now as adults, but the fact he has been encouraged to work on his social skills all his life now means that he can navigate things without being 'told' what to do.
I believe all kids should be encouraged to adapt as life isn't always the same. Change is hard for lots of people but if it isn't encouraged often, becomes almost impossible for some. A lot of asd kids need help to navigate control, but schools can help with that. It isn't an at home job only. Children learn more from their peers and social situations more than they do by just being told. Social stories or creating comic strips are a good way to map these feelings out.

But equally why should so many people live utterly miserable lives so one family member is happy?

Interesting discussion. I disagree with zero tolerance as an approach. It is unhelpful in the extreme for the mental health of autistic young people to receive the message that being autistic is an excuse not a real diagnosis. But how else could they interpret "zero tolerance" of the adjustments they need, unless they happen not to inconvenience anyone else.

As our older kids were growing up, both autistic I had to adjust the way I parented to fit the kids I had. I did that without any thought most of the time. But there were battles particularly over things like food and clothing until we came to an agreement as to what works.

Ds and DD1 are very different people with different needs, but both autistic. One sensory seeking the other avoiding, one huggy and in need of physical and emotional reassurance frequently the other needs precise timetables and clear expectations spelled out. Both need recovery time from social activity or a day at school / uni.

The way we live our lives has been impacted by the needs of our two older children. We have had to consider in advance, food, activities, timing, how busy a location is, how far from transport etc. etc. When organising holidays we have chosen familiar places, quiet accommodation. Day trips are followed by a quiet day for recovery. Restaurants are chosen in advance, menus looked at, tables booked timings communicated and always a plan b. We don't tend to be spontaneous because we want activities as a family to be fun not fraught and stressful or distressing.

Schools have been supportive as long as what they need to do to support the kids doesn't put them out too much. So there have been battles along the way. They are good at being understanding in theory, but some teaching staff when they are faced with a young person in meltdown they still try to place expectations instead of allowing time/ space. A Senco once described our very self conscious, kind, anxious daughter as "rude", seeming to not understand that if you are on the edge of melting down in school and need to go somewhere quiet you may be blunt if pursued by staff asking you to talk to them and by blunt I mean saying "I need to be alone" rather than saying f off!😂

People are very understanding of difference and disability in as far as it doesn't challenge or inconvenience them. That is an issue. I find my kids are generally only unreasonable when they are stressed and overwhelmed so I try to address the underlying issue if possible. We have boundaries and the kids have been taught to respect other people and their needs. They don't always pick up on how other people feel so you have to explain and reason. To each according to their needs, from each according to their ability.

As an autistic person with a child who has asd plus developmental delays, it's a fine balance.

I was brought up with no clue I was autistic and no allowances made . I probably would have massively benefited from some support in school due to processing issues. And some allowances made in the home particularly around food/senory.

With my son we give him routines and aim to keep his anxiety down. This enables him to do more

I think I know the thread you're talking about, it was awful. OP saying she no longer cared about her daughter's happiness or wellbeing and planned to shut her in her room and not allow her to eat with the rest of the family. Then a couple of posters came along and encouraged OP to smack her DD. I hope it was a troll, and frankly I'm not sure why you're dredging it up.

The rest of the family have the right to a tolerable home life too.

They aren't happy. They exert that level of control over others simply to cope.

No one is happy in this situation. It's really sh*t.

Agreed that is why it should be a balancing act neither pandering nor zero tolerance

‘Pandering’ isn’t what anyone is advocating. Reducing overall demands is far more likely to result in a child who is able to be more flexible, thus improving life for the whole family.

it’s certainly worked that way here.

So if nothing is going to make them happy then what’s the point? The rest of the family may as well be happy if they’re not.

And as an adult?

an excuse for what? I have not done anything wrong. I don't need to make any excuse. The word is perfectly valid. You are the person putting some sort of weird and judgemental interpretation on it. The issue, if there is one, is in your head.

Interesting discussion. So much depends on the age of the individual concerned and how much they can personally cope with, and it's very hard to strike a balance.

My early secondary age ASD child would love to never have to leave the house, and to spend all day every day on various screens. They get a lot more screen time than most their age, but then they don't have any friends to hang out with or any non screen based interests (believe me I've tried). I do make them go out for a walk every day at the weekend/school hols, and eat dinner at the table without screens. I also make them go to school, though they have asked to be home schooled. I worry that school will be damaging as they find some elements of it it stressful (they are in mainstream with few adjustments, what they most dislike is having to do subjects they find boring!) but I think letting them hide in their room on screens all the time would be worse.

It would be interesting to hear what autistic adults say about what effects the approach their parents took had on them, but so many of the previous generation went undiagnosed (my child probably would have) that we don't have many examples of those who were given a lot of accommodations, only those who were forced as much as possible to "be normal".