Mother in Law did not use car seats for my children.

[ChouxPastryHeart]

Hi everyone,

This will be a bit long so thank you for reading in advance and giving input.

My DH and I have two DC; a 3 year old and an 18 month old. We live in Sweden as he is Swedish and has family here. This week, he was away for work which doesn’t usually happen, and since I also work full time, we asked my MIL if she could pick up our girls on one of the days so that they could be picked up at 3pm instead of 6pm, since that was my latest working day. She agreed and a few days before, I sent her a text to let her know where pick up would be etc. I let her know that the childminder lives 15 min walk from our house and that since MIL doesn’t have car seats, she would need to pick them up by walking.

Fast forward to the morning after she picked them up - I have it confirmed by my childminder that MIL did indeed pick them up with her car, but childminder was not aware that she didn’t have car seats. I was livid and just in shock. The journey would only have been 5 minutes, but that doesn’t matter. These girls are the most precious thing in our life and not even 30 secs is worth the risk in my opinion. Not to mention, it is illegal.

I called her that afternoon and calmly asked her to explain what happened. She told me that she had them propped up on some cushions and then used the seatbelt. I told her that I was extremely upset about this, that what she did was dangerous and put the girls’ lives at risk. She responded with: ‘no, it wasn’t dangerous. I fixed it and it was perfect.’ I reiterated to her that I did not agree and that I was disappointed. She replied with: ‘you are angry about this, but that’s not my problem, that’s your problem.’ And, ‘I can’t do things your way, I do things my way and if you don’t like it, that’s not my problem.’ For certain things, I could buy that reasoning, but not for this ffs. 🤯

I was in utter shock and disbelief at this point. When I asked her why she ignored the wish for her to walk to pick them up, she replied with ‘I couldn’t walk that far and I didn’t know the way.’ She absolutely could walk that far; she is 63 years old and goes for hikes when she is abroad! I told her that if she didn’t want to walk, she could have told me days before and I would have arranged something else. She had no answer for me.

I ended the call by saying to her that I find it worrying that she does not see anything wrong with what she did, that this has made me lose trust entirely, and that this was the last time she would be asked to ever supervise the girls alone. Her response was: ‘well that’s your problem.’

My husband is also flabbergasted by this and said he will have a talk with her. I need to mention that this has not been the only occasion throughout the 11 years we have been together where she has disrespected me and crossed boundaries, but this is just a whole other level and involves my children’s safety. DH has had harsh conversations with her before about various things, but I don’t think that will cut it this time. I feel like I am done with this woman.

Am I being unreasonable to expect my husband to implement a serious consequence, like telling her she is no longer welcome in our home, that we do not want to communicate with her at all until she comes to her senses and apologises for the way she has behaved and the utter disrespect?

PS. We never rely on her for childcare regularly, except for asking for a little bit of help for like two times a year and this was one of those times!

Oh my goodness, that's terrible! Your 18 month old is still a baby! Sweden has very strict car seat laws, and I would agree with PP that the standards are higher than in the UK. Never let the children go in a car with her again.

I'm 65. I'm talking about my late MIL's generation (she was born in 1929).

I lost my rag with her when she wrapped DD up in a blanket when she had a high temperature. In fact DD ended up in hospital later that day. Then when MIL came to visit the next day and saw that DD was just lying there in a nappy with no blanket over her she put the blanket over her whereupon the nurse removed it and gave MIL a filthy look.

Her reaction is almost more concerning than anything else, her insistence that any problem is yours alone. It is as if she is desperate to escalate the situation and alienate you.

It was wrong and foolish but I do think you're overreacting. She's of a generation where car seats weren't a thing but I know that's no excuse. In this situation I'd give her a stern talking (DH should do it) and make sure it never happens again. I certainly wouldn't go no contact or say she's not welcome in the house. It was a mistake, move on.

She's of a generation where car seats weren't a thing

She isn't. She's 63 not 93.

I’m fairly certain she wasn’t a parent before the mid 1960’s.

not only is it stupidly dangerous and irresponsible but it's illegal. I would have gone apeshit. my 2 year old would've been out the seatbelt and opening windows and all sorts.

No! She is not - she 63 FFS - car seats were absolutely a thing in her day

I am 62 and DH is 68 and we brought up our kids in Sweden and not using a car seat was not an option even back then

To be honest, judging by her response to you when you initially spoke to her .. it doesn't appear she would give a flying fuck if you 'went no contact' (a grim ungrammatical expression) In fact - it sounds like she would prefer little contact with you .. and you obviously don't like her - so it sounds like it would be a better deal for you both .

I can't imagine her son would also cut his mother off - perhaps he will but it's not something you can demand - and as a parent of your child assume he can take his child to visit GM in the same way you can choose not to.

Car seats were definitely a thing in the 90s.

I'd have been livid too. But as a PP said, it's not illegal in Sweden.

Sweden is a strange place when it comes to car seats. Seats are possibly the safest in the world. Isn't isofix a swedish invention? But at the same time there's a portion of people who are very blase about it. My health authority loan out carseats because there are so many who otherwise wouldn't bother with them.

Other posters are saying it is. Who is right?

I missed that there was an 18 month old. It's not illegal for the 3 year old. Is is for the younger one.

'Barn som är tre år eller äldre och kortare än 135 centimeter får inte åka i ett fordon där det inte finns möjlighet att använda en särskild skyddsanordning för barn. Vid tillfälliga transporter under korta sträckor är det dock tillåtet. I sådana fall ska barnet i stället använda bilbältet när det är möjligt och får då inte åka i framsätet i en personbil eller i en lätt lastbil. Barn som är yngre än tre år får inte åka i fordon där det inte finns möjlighet att använda en särskild skyddsanordning för barn. Det enda undantaget är vid tillfällig färd i taxi under korta sträckor, men då får barnet inte åka i framsätet.'

Basic translation, 3 year olds can go seat free for short, temporary journies. Under 3 year olds can only go seat free in a taxi.

www.transportstyrelsen.se/sv/vagtrafik/Trafikregler/I-fordonet/Sa-skyddar-du-barnen---regler-och-tips/#:~:text=Barn%20som%20%C3%A4r%20yngre%20%C3%A4n,barnet%20inte%20%C3%A5ka%20i%20frams%C3%A4tet.

(Link is to the Department of Transport)

It's not unreasonable to be upset about this.

However I think it was unreasonable to expect your mil to walk to collect them, walking home with two small children would definitely take longer than 15 mins. I think you should have sorted out the car seats for your mil.

If I'd asked my mum to collect my dd from the cm I would t expect her to walk dd home even though it's only a quick walk. I actually bought dm a car seat for her car to save on this sort of stress.

How is the OP being OTT in this situation? Please explain because as much as I’m trying to, I’m failing to understand how anyone could think this is acceptable and should be met anything other than having their access cut off. If you can’t respect the mother of your grandchildren wanting you to follow the LAW and can’t prioritise your grandchildren’s safety then why on earth would anyone want to interact with you or welcome you into their home?

I don’t think it’s harsh whatsoever. You can call my post an “overreaction, harsh” or whatever you like but the simple fact is you’re wrong and law disagrees with you wholeheartedly. My post wasn’t just aimed at you but others who have tried to excuse this abhorrent behaviour as the OP overreacting as well. It’s not a wonder so many children get abused and worse with the amount of people on here who would happily allow people so be so blasé with their children’s safety and wellbeing. How would you deal with it because clearly her MIL isn’t open to common sense and basic reasoning so the situation just isn’t workable? I don’t know anyone who has a basic level of intelligence that could forgive this nor her lack of care or regret after. There just isn’t a way of compromising with that level of selfish, arrogant stupidity and people who can’t see fault in such bad behaviour so the answer is to ban them from contact.

To accuse someone of overreacting when their MIL blatantly put their children in serious danger, then to go on and minimise and say they’re using it as an excuse just to cut her off as if it’s unjustified is spiteful and stupid. If she listened to posters like yourself and doubted herself then she’d let this maniac back into her children’s life where she doesn’t deserve and shouldn’t be. Next time it could be much worse. Would it still be overreacting if she was hit by another vehicle and her children died as a result? Posters saying “God knows how people survived in the 60s and 70”s - sad fact of the matter, a lot of them didn’t survive and the ones that did often were left with life changing injuries. This is not a matter that is open to interpretation or remotely subjective. This is why the laws are the laws.

You also started posting irrelevant information about the UK when it’s in Finland for starters and the UK guidance that you’ve put up you’ve misinterpreted (god knows how) because the situation doesn’t apply for any of the points you listed and wouldn’t anyway because the youngest is nowhere near 3 years old. It annoys me that people like yourself post misinformation and have the audacity to make out like the OP is in the wrong. It’s really not a difficult law to interpret even in the UK let alone in other countries who take this as seriously as it should be like Finland.

@ForestForever

I think your'll find it's Sweden not Finland.

Deciding not allow mil to look after the children again was a suggestion. Cutting her out of the grandchildren's and her Dh's life altogether, by going no contact, is a further step, that op herself suggested. Many many posters suggested that this 2nd step, of going nc, was too much. Innumerable posters, many many suggested that going nc was a step too far, an overreaction. So why are you singling me out, when countless others have posted the same?

This post could’ve been written by me OP.

My MIL put 2 of mine into the back of her car with a lap belt only and when I challenged her she started going on about how the world had gone safety mad and in her day it was all the kids sat wherever without any seat belt.

My MIL did not change. If you want my advice hold out for an apology, don’t use her again for child minding and see her as infrequently as possible. Don’t cut off ties, just reduce the amount of time you spend with her. If your other half want to spend time with her and your kids, that’s fine, you can join in every other time.

Stand up for what you believe is right.

People aren't always open about their physical limits for various reasons including fear of embarrassment.

If she says she can't walk for 15 mins with a 3 year old and 18 month old, believe her. Doesn't matter how old she is.

Assuming the 18 month old is in a pushchair and the 3 year old is walking, there's potentially a lot of behaviour management to do with the older one whilst pushing a pushchair, maybe one handed. Walking with an 18 month old is hard: you end up stooped / bent over to reach their hands. I couldn't/wouldn't do that for 15 mins. (And yes, then you have a pushchair and two children).

It wasn't reasonable to expect her to walk. (And that's without considering the weather or the level of traffic on the roads or its speed or the width of the pavements).

It wasn't reasonable for her to take them by car without car seats.

But you needed to arrange to lend her your car seats or to pay for a taxi.

Ok, what she did wasn’t great, particularly with the little one but…..buy her some car seats?

She was wrong not using child seats but you were wrong expecting her to walk with an 18 month old and 3 year old when she’s not familiar with area , or why didn’t you offer to drop off child seats ?

My children have children of their own by now and this happened when they were younger. When the person who was going to care for them that day did not have car seats, we just traded cars. She herself did not want to take my children without the correct car seats. I am forever grateful to have had her as a friend and hate Covid for taking her from us.

‘you are angry about this, but that’s not my problem, that’s your problem.’ And, ‘I can’t do things your way, I do things my way and if you don’t like it, that’s not my problem.’

No. She took unnecessary risk with your children, did not follow your wishes as their parent and broke the law as well.

Furthermore, if I were the childminder, I would be questioning her judgement and, depending on how childminders are regulated and their relationship with your local Child Services I would be possibly wary of any connection with her after this as a result. Imagine your MIL pulled this BS again and had an accident: the childminder may be asked why she allowed the kids to be collected by someone whom she knew had previously exposed them to danger like this.

Going NC over this alone? no. Firm boundary adjustment required. If she "can't do things your way", she won't be given the opportunity or trust to "do things" at all. Stand firm and good luck.

Don’t think I’d flip out over a five minute drive but I wouldn’t give her the opportunity to repeat it. Maybe time for family counseling. I think you have a generational break down here. Your mil is not a bad person, I don’t believe, she does however, have a different belief system that is incongruent with yours. Doesn’t make her a bad person, just set in her ways. Children aside, how much bending do you do to meet mil halfway?

If your MIL drives to pick up the kids - damn well buy car seats to fit in with her way of doing things or don't ask her to pick up the kids.

You're both in an ego stand off.

You'd rather cut her out of your children's and husband's life - than agree to sit down and discuss, if you ask her for a favour, how it's going to be carried out and agree what you'll provide or how you'll compromise or whether it's not possible.

You're being childish.

If you don't trust her with your children - don't ask for her help or leave the children with her.

But you want to punish her. You want to hurt her.

It's not even crossed your mind, that maybe you should have provided car seats?

What happens if one of your children needs to go to hospital and you have no car seats to take one or both of them???

So why did you not provide child seats?

What is the grandmother like with your kids, in general? Do they get on well / is she a positive influence? If so, then I'd keep contact but not leave them unsupervised.

If she is showing any signs of bullying / negative impact on the kids then I'd say this is a good time to cut her out - particularly if she's not receptive to feedback or change. I wish my parents had cut out my horrible gran.