Free Movement with EU for young people?

[Kendodd]

Would you support?
YANBU = Yes
YABU = No

BBC News - EU proposes some free movement for UK young people
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68848046

They generally require experience and skills and have earnings thresholds that prohibit people who are just starting out in their careers.

Current government is doing its v best to fuck up the universities, which are closing Departments and cutting posts left, right and centre.

@MumChp so when I attended university 1974 - 77 I still needed to buy accommodation and food and transport and books. Very sorry to burst your bubble, but even then, it all had to be paid for. And while the figures seem unbelievable now, when we paid £8pw per person x 5 for a three bed flat plus utilities and rates, that was quite fancy. Phone: incoming calls only.

@Papyrophile

You compare 2024 with 1974. Brillant. I rest my case.

We got by because we cooked en famille, so one person cooked and shopped for dinner most evenings. with five people it was a rolling game but everyone participated. There was no opting out, ever, in a whole year. It sounds remarkable now. If it was your turn to cook, you cooked and fed us all, together, at the same time. No dodges, no excuses. We ate together, and talked. It was quite civilised and probably way too MC for most of MN.

I think that same scenario would be impossible to re-create now.

Go back one post @MumChp and read why it worked. In that very happy student flat, we had one shared bathroom and one shared loo. It was a third floor walk up, so you carried the day's food ingredients home from the supermarket. I stayed in the same flat the next year and the people who replaced the first lot were a nightmare, so I moved. They didn't want to pay a rate that meant all the costs were covered, so they bickered over every bill,. And eventually got thrown out for non payment.

And if you seriously believe that 1974 was a picnic compared to 2024, I 'd have to disagree. 2024 is only as awful as any other year to get started in. Any year a person starts living independently of their parents feels shitty. Nothing has changed.

@MumChp just for your own interest, do please Google something like what life was like in 1974. I promise you will be half shocked and half envious. The world was very different then. It has got better.

@MumChp why does so much of Europe have such high unemployment rates for the under 25s?

It’s not the pp thinking it alone though it’s in the quotes from the EU. It’s to access universities at domestic fee rate

It is a major reason for the idea

One issue is how is the decrease in fees is dealt with by the UK as it means lower £ for universities. Do EU students replace U.K. ones or higher paying non U.K. ones

Besides that @sashagabadon post sounds attractive, if possible

Lancrelady80

. Our country is in a state as it is, we need our bright sparks to help dig us out of this hole, not leave and find life is arguably easier/better elsewhere and settle there.”

Tough shit, frankly. One of our youngsters voted remain. Youngest wasn’t given a vote, would have voted to remain. Why should they give up on life chances to dig idiots who voted leave - and are presumably happy with the state they’ve created - out of the hole they dug for themselves?

Both have careers where they could (and in case of youngest will probably be required to ) work in locations around the world. I fervently hope that they settle somewhere far more beneficial to them/their families than the UK will be in decades to come. We’ll miss them, of course we will, but their success and satisfaction is more important to us.

Yes I don’t quite get what’s in the deal for U.K. young people, U.K. universities or U.K. students?
increased competition for jobs in the hospitality sector leading to lower wages. Reduced fees for U.K. universities ( but I thought they were cash strapped so why is that good?) and fewer places on popular U.K. university courses as more competition for places.
The number of U.K. students going the opposite way would be way less and then only to a select number of EU countries not all of them.
We are right to say no.
ancedotally I have a dd at a U.K. university right now and she has employment opportunities coming out of her ears at the moment and hourly wages are good. She is turning down work. That’s great for her and other U.K. young people. Why do we want to reverse that situation? She also has an EU passport so could go work in any EU country but has plenty of opportunities here. She may well do so in future of course and good for her if she does.

Why do EU countries have such high unemployment rates for their young? It’s a strange thing as they have vibrant functioning economies too.

My son would have loved to do a very niche MA in a European country that isn’t available here. Fees for EU students €3000 for the year, fees for non EU students €16000 a year. Needless to say he can’t do it. And he’s gutted, it’s not just about jobs.

Yes the same here Ds at university. How would increased competition help? Or making up the funding gap as decreased fees are offered?

Plus his casual work wage is good

I recall Itsu owner asking for youth visas as it would mean he wouldn’t hand to keep offering more. Ds likes his higher restaurant wage, it would be suppressed if labour supply increased

But @ blossomtoes how is opening up the U.K. job market and uni sector to millions of EU young people going to benefit U.K. youth?
it might benefit your son in a niche area with lower MA fees but as you say that is niche. There are millions more EU 18-30 year olds compared to U.K. 18-30 year olds. The numbers matter.
i prefer the situation as is now. It’s much much better for my dd and her friends ( two of whom have just spent the year in Spain on their U.K. university courses so clearly it is still possible to do this)

Comparing the 1970s/80s with now. 3 decades ago...?!

I went to Uni in 1982, in London where I grew up. I got a student travelcard and a books grant - none of this was means tested. & of course - no Uni fees. Stayed home with parents throughout Uni. When I left in 1986 I put my name down on the 'Sons & Daughters Housing List' - this scheme was for the adult children of tenants, we were rehoused in the local area.

I was given a large 2 bed flat in 1987; I remember loving that flat, the heating was included in the rent, minimal costs. I married in the early 90s, DH moved in with me. When we had DCs, sold that flat and bought a 3 bed house in a leafier area.

Young people today have NO CHANCE of the above. People who had it much easier back then and now can't stand to see young people get a break, are just lying because they imagine with the passing of time, they can say anything they like when it doesn't relate to the truth.

Step back let young people have their moment, without you striving to be included in any of the possible benefits, and aiming to convince its a bad idea because of that.

Especially those who voted against the interests of their own future generations, or didnt vote at all so helped Brexit go thru. It's not your time.

How many EU 18 to 30 year olds do you seriously think would want to come to a country on its knees with every public service running on empty? We’re haemorrhaging skilled, qualified workers, healthcare professionals are leaving in their droves. The UK isn’t an attractive destination.

I too grew up in London during that time and one of my friends also got a home via that council scheme , which she bought 10 years later under Right to Buy taking that home out of circulation for others coming up behind her. Sons and daughters scheme quickly ran out of homes to give to tenants adult children and stopped. I spent two years administering the right to buy scheme in the 90’s and many were given under this scheme. they were definitely the lucky generation.
those days definitely gone

Thousands blossomtoes, especially London.
if they do not want to come why is the EU suggesting it??

Of course young people want to come here it’s why the EU is bothering to ask for lower domestic fees and the arrangement to start with

Plus higher youth unemployment rates in a few countries

Given our skill shortages in many areas and our low birth rate we should be encouraging them. I still can’t see an influx happening and we’d gain more than we’d lose.

It will impact U.K. university students and probably wages for young people

I’m with @sashagabadon those elements are beneficial to a greater majority

How will it? Universities are struggling to fill places now and having to close courses from lack of demand. Hospitality providers can’t fill vacancies. In what world is that desirable?

Competition from o/s students is high as they pay higher fees already

If you increase domestic fee rate to include EU students someone will have to make up the short fall

We pay enough as it is, university is not cheap

Hospitality wants wage suppression Ds and his friends benefit from that not happening

There’s zero competition from overseas students. There’s now too little demand for some courses for them to continue. There are barely any Fine Art degree courses now. The fee system worked perfectly well pre Brexit, why would anything be different now? Hospitality needs workers and can’t get them - the country isn’t run for the benefit of teenage boys.

I think this is where you and I disagree @BIossomtoes
you think what’s the problem, it’ll benefit the uk
i think the opposite. I think job availability and pay has massively improved for U.K. young people and it would be a backwards step for us.
i am all for targeted deals with say France as our closest neighbour and where numbers may be equal but not the whole EU as they vastly outnumber us in numbers alone and it would not benefit our young.