Free Movement with EU for young people?

[Kendodd]

Would you support?
YANBU = Yes
YABU = No

BBC News - EU proposes some free movement for UK young people
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68848046

You mean they were trying to escape the sunlit uplands of the EU? Surely not 😂

But seriously, this is a worry and the EU are pushing for it - why? Youth unemployment in Spain is high, possibly other EU countries too. Could this be a manipulation of their figures. Agreements with individual countries should be on the table and the terms scrutinised.

Presumably migration law expert Diego Acosta is wasting his time here;

Bilateral agreements should be explored and examined as a possible alternative to an EU-wide agreement with the UK to facilitate and govern cross-border mobility. Various bilateral free movement agreements across Europe show that their use is not only legal but also habitual.

https://www.epc.eu/en/Publications/After-Brexit-Could-bilateral-agreements-facilitate-the-free-movement~419128

A) As pointed out above, it requires a visa but more importantly,

B) is set up under "Agreement between the Government of Canada and the European Community establishing a Framework for Cooperation in Higher Education, Training and Youth"

It's not a bilateral, it's an agreement between Canada and the EU as a whole.

Not sure if you've read the paper you linked to but the proposal from migration law expert Diego Acosta would require people to apply for residency permits (aka not free movement). P10 first paragraph.

The EU does allow free movement into Schengen for people living in certain defined areas across land borders but we don't have any land borders with Schengen.

Nice argument to authority though.

We should ask to rejoin and be an EU country again!

Not going to happen for a generation and the EU will not want to open any negotiations until:

1. There are some grownups in the room on the UK side.

1. There has been consistent polling that indicates that Brits want to rejoin and a referendum result of over 70% in favour of rejoin

1. UK agrees to not expect all the previous opt outs and there is full monetary union.

Fucking auto edit.😡

The Treaty is here, although there's a (cursory) reference to a previous EU agreement;

Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the French Republic concerning Youth Mobility

Purpose
The purpose of this Agreement is to simplify and facilitate the administrative procedures applicable to young Canadian nationals and young French nationals who wish to visit the country of which they are not nationals, in order to increase their knowledge of the languages, culture and society of that country through a travel, study, internship, work, and life experience.

Done at Ottawa, this 14th day of March 2013

Bal Gosal
For the Government
of Canada

Valérie Fourneyron
For the Government
of the French Republic
https://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=105387

TheCadoganArms
There has been consistent polling that indicates that Brits want to rejoin and a referendum result of over 70% in favour of rejoin

Mostly less than 50% actively wanted to rejoin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_United_Kingdom_to_the_European_Union

FFS! That "cursory reference" is what makes it legal! If the EU hadn't made an agreement with Canada in 2006 to let students travel to the EU, France would not have been able to agree to it. For the UK to do the same it would FIRST have to negotiate with the EU to allow student travel, before then deciding how many French, German, Bulgarian students to let in. Canada could not have approached France directly and made a student agreement, no more than the UK can now.

KrisAkabusi

The France/Canada Treaty is clearly a bilateral agreement.

How come I can see the words 'bilateral agreement' here as well?

On Monday 3 July [2023] the UK and Spain signed a bilateral agreement on co-operation in matters of education and access to university and other higher education institutions.

https://opportunities-insight.britishcouncil.org/news/news/uk-spain-mutual-recognition-of-school-qualifications

TheCadoganArms
There has been consistent polling that indicates that Brits want to rejoin and a referendum result of over 70% in favour of rejoin

There's the kicker - not happening. There's not much appetite amongst British people living in the UK to join up to the political bloc.

Or providing young people in the UK with career opportunities that the UK can't provide and wouldn't pay them fairly for anyway?

You are willfully missing the point now. It only has any standing because of a previous agreement between Canada and the EU. The UK has not made any agreement with the EU with regard to young people having the right to travel or study so the UK cannot make an agreement the way Canada did with France. There is no process in place to allow the UK to negotiate on travel rights with individual EU member states.

KrisAkabusi
FFS! That "cursory reference" is what makes it legal!

How come it says this in the BBC link in the op?

In a policy document, the European Commission said it was stepping in after the UK approached several unnamed EU countries last year to discuss individual deals.

It said this risked "differential treatment" of EU citizens, and instead there should be a bloc-wide deal to ensure they are "treated equally".

Why are the European Commission twittering on about "differential treatment" if it's not legal anyway?

Sounds to me like the EU want all 27 nations to have equal access to the U.K. as Westminster has been approaching preferred countries to do separate deals and the EU wants to be in control!
so the EU has more to gain from an EU wide deal than the U.K.
we should sticks to our guns here.
we have something the EU want - access to U.K. universities and the U.K. job market for their young people. But the U.K. does not want access to the whole EU for our young people to access their universities or job markets but just select countries ( presumably Germany , Spain, Italy , France?)

This.

This.

Sounds to me like the EU want all 27 nations to have equal access to the U.K. as Westminster has been approaching preferred countries to do separate deals and the EU wants to be in control! so the EU has more to gain from an EU wide deal than the U.K. we should sticks to our guns here.

I don't think the TCA allows for negotiations with individual countries.

To pps having a go at me, let me make myself clear.

Brexit is shit. It never should have happened and I remain pissed off it did. We went backwards by being tied down by a ridiculously small margin - it has set us back years.

As a country, those of us trapped here by the Brexit-voters and who are too old (ie over 30, apparently) or low-incomed (a colleague is emigrating to Spain and filling me in on financial requirements 😮) to be able to easily leave DO need young people to remain. Our country is in a state as it is, we need our bright sparks to help dig us out of this hole, not leave and find life is arguably easier/better elsewhere and settle there.

People accusing me of being selfish aren't seeing the big picture. Allowing Brain Drain is not something we should be facilitating...we can all see by the state of our government that there's clearly little enough as there is. For me, it's not about keeping them here to pay pensions (although we do need that), it's about not creating an ever downwards spiral. That's what I fear this would create.

Yes, it's not fair. I completely agree. It's shit. It's not their fault, they didn't vote to leave. But nor did a pretty damn big (say, not big enough) percentage of the country who are now being discriminated against on the basis of age. I would love kids to have access to travel and study abroad if they want. But I think we ALL should have that, not be seduced into happily going along with a plan that offers that only to those the EU find economically useful.

providing young people in the UK with career opportunities that the UK can't provide and wouldn't pay them fairly for anyway?

So they will leave, won't they? Don't blame them, I would.

We need young people here. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

So rather than open the gates and wave them off with a smile, what we should be doing is exactly what you say - paying fairly and providing opportunities for them to flourish here.

Yes absolutely and I would hope that the 'why can't I have that' mentality would put pressure to reverse what a ridiculously fucking stupid act of self-harm Brexit was so that we can all enjoy the rights we once had.
Why should my children have less opportunities for travel and experiencing the world than I had because of poor political choice as a result of lies by self-serving arseholes.
This country has become insular, downtrodden and miserable and I wouldn't be surprised if they left in their droves, I would if I could.
Anyway, I think I've made my feelings clear.

We need young people here. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

There are plenty of young people around the world who are willing to come to the UK.

That is nice but honestly where is the money? We spend very little on young people and their needs compared to pensioners. I will not be telling my children to hang around in the UK and contribute to a country that already has spent 40 years driving wealth into the hands of older richer people. I see zero sign of this mentality changing.

The money comes from young people actually being seen and prioritised for once, rather than it all being about appeasing pensioners. Money always seems available when something deemed important enough comes up.

Perhaps the plus side of this if it does happen is that the government might also see the danger of Brain Drain and decide to invest in our young people for a change, and give them a reason to want to stay.

Well Sunak the unelected PM (yay thank goodness we got rid of those unelected bureaucrats!) has decided it’s not happening.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/sunak-rejects-offer-of-mobility-scheme-for-young-people-between-eu-and-uk