AIBU to tell my daughter to come back home after living abroad?

[TeaAddicted]

My eldest daughter is 22 and lives in a country she has always wanted to since she was a teenager. She knew I would miss her when she moved, so at first she said she was only going for a short time to go travelling. But now she seems to be staying put in this country. One of her friends from school is also out there with her and they decided to go together.

She phoned me a few days ago for a chat and told me something worrying. Apparently she’s been working in a ‘hostess bar’ where she speaks to men and serves them drinks. I was a bit upset about this because she’d told me at first that she’d been teaching English and had told my ex-husband (her dad) the truth about the hostess job. To me, it seems similar to escorting and I’m not comfortable with her being in that environment, probably being leered at by older men.

I only found out because she told her dad that one of the clients, a man in his late 30s, seems obsessed with her and that he followed her back to where she lives. Ex-husband told me and then my daughter confirmed it during the phone call. I told her that she’s in a dangerous situation as this man knows where she lives and anything could happen. I told her to report him to the police and to make plans to come back home where her family are. She told me she doesn’t want to report it as she doesn’t have the right work visa and it could mess things up for her/ get her into trouble.

I have a younger school-aged daughter who has now become aware of this situation because she heard my ex-husband talking about it with me and now she’s asking questions and worrying. I don’t know what to say to her because I can’t sleep at night thinking about this.

I’m upset with my ex-husband and my older daughter because both have been dishonest and I suspect they’re still not telling me everything that’s going on. She has always been close to both of us but more so to him because he moved out when she was young and has always been the weekend parent who gave her all the treats and fun trips, while I was working and trying to support the children.

Ex-husband has told her to be careful, tell her boss about the man and to tell us if the man causes any problems. He says she’s an adult and we shouldn’t interfere. But I don’t think that’s good enough. I’m terrified that this strange man will cause her harm. I want her to come home and have been arguing with her dad about this since I found out. I know she kept things from me to stop me worrying but that’s caused even more worry. Her dad is quite irresponsible anyway (that's another story) and is dismissing what I'm saying to him about this.

I’ve asked my partner if we can use our savings to book a flight there for a visit. At least then I’ll be close to her and can help with the situation because I feel powerless here.

AIBU to tell her to come home and end her travels early? I know she’s an adult but it’s hard to sit back and do nothing when you feel that your child could be in a dangerous situation.

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to update. I've had a stressful few days. My youngest had an accident at the weekend, fell off of her bike and hit her head so I spoke to my ex-husband later than planned and over the phone instead of face to face like I'd planned to. He was the same as usual, very dismissive. I raised with him the issues about DD working illegally and he said the chance she would get caught is remote and we have to let her make her own mistakes and not 'micromanage' her. I was close to losing my temper with him so it was a short call.

After that I phoned DD. I spoke to her very honestly and said that I have concerns about the visa situation. She said that she's known other people who have tried to apply for the work visa and have been rejected. She likes being in Japan and doesn't want to leave the country and be stuck outside for months if the visa gets rejected. She says she originally planned to just travel around Japan for a short time on the tourist visa but was offered the hostess bar job and accepted it because she was running short of money. I said I'd be willing to help her apply for the work visa and make sure all the correct information is included. She can be a bit scatty and her attention wanders so I think she's worried about missing something out and being rejected.

I asked her again about the man but I felt she was uncomfortable talking about it, perhaps because she knows it's causing me a lot of worry. She said he's harmless and he wants to help her. I asked what she meant and she said that she accepted an offer of money from him in the past. This raised red flags and I am sorry to admit that I started to question her and panic. I kept thinking, money for what? She said it was a 'gift' to help her with daily living costs because she told him during their chat in the club that she was short on money that month. I told her that men don't randomly give money without expecting something in return and she told me I should forget about it because he only wanted to help. She then clammed up and changed the subject. I ended the phone call by saying I'd send her money if she asked and she should have approached me before taking money from a random man in a foreign country. It ended awkwardly but she is still replying to my texts.

I am upset about this whole thing. DD is being so naive and I feel like her father isn't realising just how much. I'm not sure if he knows about the money she accepted but sometimes I think I should give up with him and focus on trying to help her how I can from here.

You can't tell her to do anything. Also, I would hate it if my parents had unannouncedly booked a flight to a country I'm in halfway across the world.

Even if you do go there and find her, then what? You tell her the same in person as you do over the phone, but the man still exists, and nothing changes? It sounds harsh, but being there will not provide anything apart from making yourself feel better at the expense of what your daughter feels.

I agree, though, that she should leave if she is in danger, even if it is at the expense of a visa.

She said that she's known other people who have tried to apply for the work visa and have been rejected.
that’ll be because there he no “work visa” for hostess work. I really don’t know what the chances are of her getting caught but I’m fairly sure the consequences would be unpleasant.

no point engaging with the ex. Just keep talking to her and reiterating that if she needs money to ask you not accept offers from random men.

she does seem very naive unfortunately.

Please please don't say it's Tailand.
My friends daughter was an " Hostess " in a bar there.. they were literally prostitutes..

She's home now after one " client " beat her up
She couldn't go to the police.. no visa.. the owner of the club " sorted " ..never found out how he sorted it.. but the girl was on the next flight home with a broken jaw and gonorrhea.
I hope she's safe and you get her home soon.

I've put below.

Thanks @Moier
It's like a different world out there. It's such an odd thing to employ young women to do. But I'm confused, as it says it's not prostitution but they won't issue work visas for this type of work because they class it as 'fuzoku' which when Googled comes up as a prostitution/ sex work. Is it likely that DD could be sleeping with the man who followed her home? I am so concerned about this apparent power imbalance. She's a young woman and he's significantly older with a job and a lot of money (by the sounds of it.)

It's almost like that murky middle ground that geishas operate in (which apparently we in the west never understand properly), but hostessing in clubs seems like a much sleazier setting than that.

Exactly. Being unable to get the proper visa due to the nature and that work is always a worrying situation. Especially when that means you have no recourse to police help despite being in a job where stalkers and worse could easily become a problem.

I think it's as important not to minimise as it is but to be alarmist.

Japan is generally a safe, developed country and we know "lots of people do it" (hostessing) but I wouldn't want my daughter working alone in any country where she couldn't go to the police for help, especially in a "nightlife" job.

Maybe reflect that to her OP in a pros & cons, "could be worse but could also be much better" kind of analysis of where she is and what she could do next?

Sorry. The autocorrect is very lairy tonight. It's changing all the prepositions and small words. I hope you can make sense of it.

@LiterallyOnFire
Sorry, but working a job not allowed by your visa doesn’t mean you can’t report a crime to the police. Yes, the DD may end up deported as a result, but OP would probably welcome that. If the DD is a victim of a crime, she should still go to the police.

Well you can say that, and I'd agree with you but the question is, would the DD go to the police?

Ok, glad you agree that the DD can go to the police as you said she had no recourse to the police and she couldn’t go to the police, when as a matter of fact, she can. She won’t get thrown in prison. The worst that might happen is deportation. Which isn’t a big deal for her because she has a safe home with OP in her home country. The DD isn’t a woman who would be deported to Rwanda.

She might not if OP passes on your comments saying she can’t go to the police, that is why I challenged you. This young woman shouldn’t be made afraid to seek police help by her mum via MN if she does become the victim of a crime. If she decides not to for other reasons, we can’t influence that.

I spent years in Japan, I was there when Lucie Blackman died. I also spent years working in an advice centre for foreign residents.

Japan is extremely safe overall, but your dd has unfortunately made herself far more vulnerable because of the poor choices that she has made. Hostess work isn't technically prostitution and a lot of people will fiercely defend the difference but in reality the line is blurred and lots of hostesses do end up getting paid to have sex/ provide sexual services etc. Casual assaults are also common - groping etc. Hostessing certainly isn't considered "respectable" work by ordinary Japanese people - it is viewed as part of the sex industry. Because of this, a lot of foreigners who end up in this work tend to be working illegally, like your daughter.

It sounds like she was shy and struggled to get a job in the UK, so the attention that she'll be getting in Japan is probably giving her a massive ego boost which might be hard to walk away from. It's very easy for the most ordinary Westerner to feel like a bit of a celebrity there, and unfortunately it sometimes goes to people's heads.

She is in a very precarious position, unfortunately, although not a terribly unusual one. She has clearly made some very bad decisions, and working illegally is never a good plan. Given how things have evolved, it would probably be much better for her to come home, but ultimately, she is an adult and you can't just "tell her" what to do.

I hope that she will come to her senses some time soon and realise that this isn't any way to live.

She might not if OP passes on your comments saying she can’t go to the police, that is why I challenged you. This young woman shouldn’t be made afraid to seek police help by her mum via MN if she does become the victim of a crime. If she decides not to for other reasons, we can’t influence that.

Oh for the love of goodness, read the thread @SummerFeverVenice

The DD is already very much of the position that she can't approach the police.

she had no recourse to the police and she couldn’t go to the police, when as a matter of fact, she can. She won’t get thrown in prison. The worst that might happen is deportation. Which isn’t a big deal for her because she has a safe home with OP in her home country. The DD isn’t a woman who would be deported to Rwanda.

It's a big deal to her. She doesn't want to come home. She doesn't want to be deported and she won't go to the police because of her illegal status (and probably also pressure from the club).

So for all practical purposes, she doesn't have recourse to law enforcement. She's just not willing to go to them.

Am I going to have to go back and read chunks of OP's posts to you?

I've never heard anything so silly as my reiteration of the situation being a threat to OP's DD.

What a vivid imagination you have to fully construct exactly what the DD thinks and the decisions she might make. Just please take note that there is a world of a difference between saying “no recourse to police help”, “couldnt go to the police” as facts when it is actually your opinion as to what you speculate the DD may decide to do.

She does have recourse to them. You don’t know what she is or is not willing to do.

@LiterallyOnFire
she won't go to the police because of her illegal status

Her status is legal. She has a legal, valid visa covering her stay in the country that permits her to work. The problem is her current occupation isn’t permitted by the visa. That’s a minor immigration infraction. Much the same as students exceeding the hour limits of work on their study visas. The police aren’t going to refuse to help her if she is a victim of a crime. She can go to them. She has recourse to them.

Just be honest that you think she won’t go to them and that is your opinion instead of stating she can’t as if it were fact when it is not true.

Please ignore all the posters saying ' she's an adult you can't tell her what to do.Blah blah '. I think.if they had a young daughter in the same situation they would think very differently.

By working illegally she risks being arrested and jailed .she has has put herself in a very vulnerable position whereby she could be easily blackmailed into doing things she doesn't want to do and clients, employers or anyone, will know that she can't go to the police if a crime is committed against her. YOu don't know this isn't happening already! I would be getting out there!

Any parent would fear for their daughter in this scenario,men paying for female company is always going to be risky and perhaps bring the daughter into contact with an entitled dangerous man and the added elements of being abroad.

This is not your ex's fault, and YABU. She is an adult not a child. Of you are worried, but she needs to live her life.

Going out there will achieve nothing, given that she wants to continue what she is doing. Getting too demanding or emotional with her could build barriers that may lead to her not listening to you.
Yes, you will worry. But you will worry more if she stops calling or stops sharing information with you.
You have no cards to play other than listening, advising, being supportive, and letting her know that you have the ability to book her on a flight home the minute she wants to return.

You have no cards to play other than listening, advising, being supportive, and letting her know that you have the ability to book her on a flight home the minute she wants to return.

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Also make sure she knows there is no loss of face for deciding to come home. Coming home voluntarily will not stop her going back in the future. Being deported would probably stop her returning and also will likely mean she would lose all her possessions. Immigration police are not likely to let her go home and pack.

Some years ago I saw an interview with a British woman convicted of drug smuggling in SE Asia. One of the things which struck me was that she said she had ended up in criminality because a period of ill health meant she could no longer support herself legitimately. She didnt want to seem like a failure to her family.

What a worry. Can't offer advice but wish you both well.

But what do you think the OP can do by going out there? Are you expecting her to drag her dd kicking and screaming onto a plane home? Ultimately, no matter how worried she might be, her dd is an adult and she will make her own decisions.

Of course the OP will be worried about the fact that her dd has made a series of very poor decisions, but she can't actually control that. She can reason and persuade, and she can offer support with practical stuff, and yes, going out there might shock the dd into thinking a bit more about what she is doing, but in the end, the dd will be free to make her own decision. You can't just tell an adult child what to do.