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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to tell my daughter to come back home after living abroad?

108 replies

TeaAddicted · 18/04/2024 14:44

My eldest daughter is 22 and lives in a country she has always wanted to since she was a teenager. She knew I would miss her when she moved, so at first she said she was only going for a short time to go travelling. But now she seems to be staying put in this country. One of her friends from school is also out there with her and they decided to go together.

She phoned me a few days ago for a chat and told me something worrying. Apparently she’s been working in a ‘hostess bar’ where she speaks to men and serves them drinks. I was a bit upset about this because she’d told me at first that she’d been teaching English and had told my ex-husband (her dad) the truth about the hostess job. To me, it seems similar to escorting and I’m not comfortable with her being in that environment, probably being leered at by older men.

I only found out because she told her dad that one of the clients, a man in his late 30s, seems obsessed with her and that he followed her back to where she lives. Ex-husband told me and then my daughter confirmed it during the phone call. I told her that she’s in a dangerous situation as this man knows where she lives and anything could happen. I told her to report him to the police and to make plans to come back home where her family are. She told me she doesn’t want to report it as she doesn’t have the right work visa and it could mess things up for her/ get her into trouble.

I have a younger school-aged daughter who has now become aware of this situation because she heard my ex-husband talking about it with me and now she’s asking questions and worrying. I don’t know what to say to her because I can’t sleep at night thinking about this.

I’m upset with my ex-husband and my older daughter because both have been dishonest and I suspect they’re still not telling me everything that’s going on. She has always been close to both of us but more so to him because he moved out when she was young and has always been the weekend parent who gave her all the treats and fun trips, while I was working and trying to support the children.

Ex-husband has told her to be careful, tell her boss about the man and to tell us if the man causes any problems. He says she’s an adult and we shouldn’t interfere. But I don’t think that’s good enough. I’m terrified that this strange man will cause her harm. I want her to come home and have been arguing with her dad about this since I found out. I know she kept things from me to stop me worrying but that’s caused even more worry. Her dad is quite irresponsible anyway (that's another story) and is dismissing what I'm saying to him about this.

I’ve asked my partner if we can use our savings to book a flight there for a visit. At least then I’ll be close to her and can help with the situation because I feel powerless here.

AIBU to tell her to come home and end her travels early? I know she’s an adult but it’s hard to sit back and do nothing when you feel that your child could be in a dangerous situation.

OP posts:
Haydenn · 18/04/2024 17:46

I think the fact your solution is to tell her to come home probably has a lot do do with why she didn’t confide in you in the first place.

I’d encourage her to tell the bar owner, usually these places have policies about not harassing staff. See if she can travel back after shifts with a friend or something. Support her is getting the right visa. But I wouldn’t go telling her anything or laying down the law.

kitchenhelprequired · 18/04/2024 18:09

If she's in Japan she needs to be extremely careful. Working without the right visa can easily land you in jail. The police can hold someone without informing anyone for something like 14 days, the embassy will not help at all. She's being blinded by the money and whilst Japan is generally a very safe country it has an a very unsavoury underworld. The Lucie Blackman case should be enough of a deterrent - lecture away, you will never forgive yourself if you don't. Having said all that it might be better to see if you can direct her elsewhere rather than trying to demand she comes home, that will not end well.

zeibesaffron · 18/04/2024 18:42

As others have said you can’t force her to come home, I am wondering if you could help ensure she is safe there, just some thoughts - some my niece did when she travelled a few years ago in the far east/ Aus;

  • attack alarms
  • pepper spray
  • ring type doorbell if possible/ renting a room in a property with others or where there is some security
  • ensuring her friends have her on live 360 or snapchat locations
  • have a buddying system so she checks in to someone when she gets to work/ gets home from work
  • walks to and from work with someone
  • can you/ ex give her money so she always uses cabs late a night
  • get the right visa so she isn’t frightened of phoning the police
  • tell her manager - especially if theres an escalation

I would be absolutely the same as you OP in terms of worry, your ex is downplaying this xx

StormingNorman · 18/04/2024 19:03

You can tell her to come home but she won’t listen. Your ex has the right approach in supporting her while giving her space.

Perhaps you could ask for a daily text or WhatsApp when she gets home for a couple of weeks?

LakeTiticaca · 18/04/2024 19:03

Yanbu but you can only advise her that she is in a very vulnerable and potentially dangerous situation, and keep your fingers crossed she listens to the warning xx

ShanghaiDiva · 18/04/2024 19:13

SummerFeverVenice · 18/04/2024 17:22

Serving drinks with a bit of chit chat is not like escorting/sex work at all.
I did similar in the US as a young adult.

OP YABU, a man can just as easily get obsessed with a young woman and stalk her here. It’s a sad reality no matter where you go in the world as a young woman.

You are using this as an excuse to pressure her to come home for you. You need to let go and let her live her life.

I think you are minimising the potential risks. The dd does not have the appropriate visa to work in the country and she is ‘employed’ by someone who can potentially exploit her.

Itsokish · 18/04/2024 19:15

Marbledleaves678 · 18/04/2024 15:59

As the mother of similarly aged dds, I am with you op! I’d be out of mind with worry and, if possible, on the first plane out there. I’d be sitting at the bar when she came on duty for the evening!

You can’t force her to come home but you can talk to her in a supportive way about choices. And by going there, you could assess her living situation, get a better picture close hand of the customer harassment situation and it would let her know that you are serious and that she is loved.

I’d be furious about your ex’s attitude to this too. Why isn’t he already on a plane?

Travelling and working abroad = fine and her choice.

Working illegally as a hostess in a bar -
= nope not fine at all imho as risky and exploitative (the good wage is given to mitigate the exploitation)

She may be an adult but she doesn’t have an accurate awareness of the broader picture here. You can talk to her calmly about the dangers, whether the extra money is worth it, what does this job add to her future progression etc?

I’d be discussing exactly what it is about about pandering to men’s more basic instincts, increases her self esteem? Maybe explore alternative ways of doing that?

You can then leave knowing you have done what you can and the rest is up to her. I might be tempted to have a serious word with the bar owner though about men harassing your daughter, just to put the wind up them a bit.

I know lots of people on here would consider that too heavy handed but I am just saying this is what I would do personally. Yes by doing all of this you will risk putting your dd on the defensive and alienating her even further, but a parent’s job is sometimes to risk being unpopular in order to point out dangers , and that is better than seeing a policeman arrive on your doorstep with bad news.

There are situations which require a firm word, and situations which require immediate intervention and I think this qualifies as the latter.

You can frame it in terms of “you are a wonderful person and I love you too much not to come out and make sure you are ok”

Yep this would be me ! I would rather deal with the wrath of a stroppy 22year old than ……

Original poster
TeaAddicted · 18/04/2024 19:46

Thanks for your replies. She is in Japan and I am scared for her about all the risks of not having the right visa. I know she is on a tourist visa and I think she's been leaving the country for a short time and renewing it periodically. She visited Korea at one point so that's probably what's been happening. She doesn't talk to me much about this side of things and is always saying she's busy and when we do talk, it's about the social side of things and how she's getting on there.

In our earlier phone call, I suggested the idea of coming home for a while and sorting out the visa before returning. There is a family wedding soon and I tried to use that as an incentive but she didn't seem keen. She told me that she's worried about leaving the bar and other girls taking her regular clients. It seems this job is important to her which is something I don't like. It feels seedy and she's open to being taken advantage of. She struggled for work in the UK and she feels like she's found something she's thriving at and enjoying. My ex is happy for her and I find it infuriating. He thinks this creepy man is just someone with a crush but I know what these predatory men can be like. Following her home and hanging around outside is completely weird and inappropriate and who knows what else he has done. She looks so young for her age too. She's very slight and could easily pass for a teenager.

I will bring up the idea of a Japan trip to 'visit' with DP tonight. I'm not sure how it will work logistically because I'll need to find some time off work and my youngest daughter is at primary school and can't be left alone. There's also the financial side of it. We have some modest savings but not loads. I feel like I am in a nightmare and the fact that my ex-husband can't see the issue is making it worse.

OP posts:
FiloPasty · 18/04/2024 19:49

The bar owners though are usually members of the yakuza - the Japanese mafia, these hostess bars are illegal (imagine here Bulgarian girls working in bars where they are paid to talk to English men) this is not a normal bar set up, it’s very very dangerous and the daughter has told her parents she feels uncomfortable with some advances. I would be out there in a flash, the daughter although an adult is way out of her depth and whether she realises or not is being exploited.

Motnight · 18/04/2024 19:52

I would be worried that you don't know the whole story yet, Op.

It sounds incredibly worrying but I think that your ex has the right approach.

FiloPasty · 18/04/2024 19:53

I’m in my 40’s though but when I was in my 20’s the girls I met backpacking that did it, there were lots of “sugar daddy” type situations expensive gifts etc Jimmy choos, expensive restaurants with these special customers etc yes they say no sex etc but after a while it is expected and these things can escalate, I don’t know enough as I never went but some of the stories were very chilling.
Not trying to scare you OP but as another mother with teenage girls I think you are very right to worry.

Scintella · 18/04/2024 19:57

Can you offer her the money to give up the job and move elsewhere instead of you spending it on a fare - I don't think she is safe with someone following her home. Does she want to visit somewhere else? She could go on a tourist visa to Australia for example.
I don't mean give her all your savings but juyst to get her out of there quickly.

MissUltraViolet · 18/04/2024 20:17

She is worried if she comes home for a while the other girls will take 'her clients'? This doesn't sound like your usual, random wetherspoons type bar - although granted I have never been there so no idea what is 'normal'.

Your DD (and ExH) sounds like they are being very naive and I would be very concerned, like you are. Could some kind of incentive to get her home work, even just for a little while, to try find out exactly what has been going on and talk her into some sensible decisions?

PaperStarred · 18/04/2024 21:00

MissUltraViolet · 18/04/2024 20:17

She is worried if she comes home for a while the other girls will take 'her clients'? This doesn't sound like your usual, random wetherspoons type bar - although granted I have never been there so no idea what is 'normal'.

Your DD (and ExH) sounds like they are being very naive and I would be very concerned, like you are. Could some kind of incentive to get her home work, even just for a little while, to try find out exactly what has been going on and talk her into some sensible decisions?

Well, it isn’t. From what the OP says, her daughter works as a hostess in this kind of environment, where customers pay for a drink that gets them a hostess’s attention for a certain period, and she’s on commission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_and_hostess_clubs#:~:text=A%20hostess%20club%20is%20a,male%20staff%20attend%20to%20women.

Host and hostess clubs - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_and_hostess_clubs#:~:text=A%20hostess%20club%20is%20a,male%20staff%20attend%20to%20women.

beAsensible1 · 18/04/2024 21:03

I would visit and get on at her about sorting out a proper work visa!

can she teach on an esol scheme

FiloPasty · 18/04/2024 21:07

She is now on the radar for some very unsavoury people, I don’t think it’s possible to move into teaching English etc. she needs some help to regain her self confidence, australia on a working visa a far better option.
for those commenting, it’s 100% not like Wetherspoons more like an episode of criminal minds!

beAsensible1 · 18/04/2024 21:22

TeaAddicted · 18/04/2024 19:46

Thanks for your replies. She is in Japan and I am scared for her about all the risks of not having the right visa. I know she is on a tourist visa and I think she's been leaving the country for a short time and renewing it periodically. She visited Korea at one point so that's probably what's been happening. She doesn't talk to me much about this side of things and is always saying she's busy and when we do talk, it's about the social side of things and how she's getting on there.

In our earlier phone call, I suggested the idea of coming home for a while and sorting out the visa before returning. There is a family wedding soon and I tried to use that as an incentive but she didn't seem keen. She told me that she's worried about leaving the bar and other girls taking her regular clients. It seems this job is important to her which is something I don't like. It feels seedy and she's open to being taken advantage of. She struggled for work in the UK and she feels like she's found something she's thriving at and enjoying. My ex is happy for her and I find it infuriating. He thinks this creepy man is just someone with a crush but I know what these predatory men can be like. Following her home and hanging around outside is completely weird and inappropriate and who knows what else he has done. She looks so young for her age too. She's very slight and could easily pass for a teenager.

I will bring up the idea of a Japan trip to 'visit' with DP tonight. I'm not sure how it will work logistically because I'll need to find some time off work and my youngest daughter is at primary school and can't be left alone. There's also the financial side of it. We have some modest savings but not loads. I feel like I am in a nightmare and the fact that my ex-husband can't see the issue is making it worse.

Can you not stay with your DD to keep costs down?

beAsensible1 · 18/04/2024 21:25

There are other parts of Asia, which are easier to work in then she could try again.

also Australia, but what she is doing is so dangerous and risky. It’s just not worth it

mjf981 · 18/04/2024 21:40

Is she in Shinjuku (Tokyo)?
I was there recently and accidentally stumbled upon the red light district. It was quite scary, lots of tough looking bouncers and people shouting ‘titties and beer’ and trying to get people into shady looking clubs. I couldn’t get out of there fast enough (which was hard, I was lost and it was massive). You’re right to be concerned OP.

Original poster
TeaAddicted · 18/04/2024 21:42

I would love her to leave Japan and go to another country but I doubt she would agree. She's been mad about the country since she was a child, watching all the anime, listening to Japanese music, going to cosplay events, visiting the Japan Centre in London with her friends etc. This is literally her dream and she was so excited to finally go. I could never afford to take her there on holiday but she worked and saved for a long time to be able to afford it herself. I was so proud of her but I never thought she'd end up working in a place like this. I had no idea about the Yakuza or anything like that and now I'm worried they are controlling her somehow. Do you think the obsessive man could have something to do with them?

I don't know if I could stay with her because I'm not sure about her exact living situation as she moved recently. I feel slightly apprehensive about the reception I'll get. She already thinks I'm worrying too much and if I turn up, it might confirm what my ex-husband has been saying about me being too protective and wanting to take away her independence. During the period of the divorce, he said a lot of things that affected the way my son and daughter we have together viewed me. He tried to get them to see me less, live with him etc but thankfully that was a long time ago and all sorted now.

OP posts:
kitchenhelprequired · 19/04/2024 07:40

@TeaAddicted your concerns are completely valid so please don't allow your ex to get into your head on this one. Do your own research on this kind of thing. Start by watching and reading anything on Lucie Blackman. Join the Brit Mum’s in Japan and British Expats in Japan Facebook groups and see if anyone has any suggestions of what you might be able to do or even can be of some on the ground support to DD. She is caught up in an underworld of illegal working for the wrong people. Given your ex's stance I think you need to be able to show him why he should be concerned (that's his bloody daughter for goodness sake). This is not the nice, safe Japan you read about, it's the weird other side which gets glossed over. If going was DD's dream why didn't she apply for a working holiday visa from the UK - not that that would allow her to work where she is and for very good reason.

kitchenhelprequired · 19/04/2024 07:57

@TeaAddicted I also think you should repost or change the title plus possibly change to Living Overseas. The title is very misleading- many without additional information would answer no to your question. It doesn't reflect the very specific situation and definitely plays down what's going on.

Motomum23 · 19/04/2024 08:01

I would personally tell her you would prefer she came home but you are going to out money aside as an emergency get home fund for her. Keep it but tell her that any time she needs to escape you will buy her ticket home without hesitation. Treat her like an adult - not your baby. I know she is your baby but still.

Mummyratbag · 19/04/2024 08:05

He's already crossed a SERIOUS line following her home. I would be going out there and seeing what was going on. Yes, 22 year olds are adults and you can't order them home, but she sounds incredibly naive.

This isn't just being a cocktail waitress, looking pretty and having a good way with making men feel good through nice chat and compliments... she has regular "clients" and from what others have said the people that run these places have mafia like dodgy connections. This has trafficking vibes!

Bringthejury1 · 19/04/2024 08:24

I would be so worried about her. I may be reading into this too much, but when she says she's "worried about other girls taking her clients" - is that just an excuse to give you as to why she doesn't "want" to leave? There may be something she isn't telling you, which is the actual reason why she "can't" leave. I'd be booking a flight out there ASAP, even if it meant leaving your husband at home to look after your youngest.