AIBU to tell my daughter to come back home after living abroad?

[TeaAddicted]

My eldest daughter is 22 and lives in a country she has always wanted to since she was a teenager. She knew I would miss her when she moved, so at first she said she was only going for a short time to go travelling. But now she seems to be staying put in this country. One of her friends from school is also out there with her and they decided to go together.

She phoned me a few days ago for a chat and told me something worrying. Apparently she’s been working in a ‘hostess bar’ where she speaks to men and serves them drinks. I was a bit upset about this because she’d told me at first that she’d been teaching English and had told my ex-husband (her dad) the truth about the hostess job. To me, it seems similar to escorting and I’m not comfortable with her being in that environment, probably being leered at by older men.

I only found out because she told her dad that one of the clients, a man in his late 30s, seems obsessed with her and that he followed her back to where she lives. Ex-husband told me and then my daughter confirmed it during the phone call. I told her that she’s in a dangerous situation as this man knows where she lives and anything could happen. I told her to report him to the police and to make plans to come back home where her family are. She told me she doesn’t want to report it as she doesn’t have the right work visa and it could mess things up for her/ get her into trouble.

I have a younger school-aged daughter who has now become aware of this situation because she heard my ex-husband talking about it with me and now she’s asking questions and worrying. I don’t know what to say to her because I can’t sleep at night thinking about this.

I’m upset with my ex-husband and my older daughter because both have been dishonest and I suspect they’re still not telling me everything that’s going on. She has always been close to both of us but more so to him because he moved out when she was young and has always been the weekend parent who gave her all the treats and fun trips, while I was working and trying to support the children.

Ex-husband has told her to be careful, tell her boss about the man and to tell us if the man causes any problems. He says she’s an adult and we shouldn’t interfere. But I don’t think that’s good enough. I’m terrified that this strange man will cause her harm. I want her to come home and have been arguing with her dad about this since I found out. I know she kept things from me to stop me worrying but that’s caused even more worry. Her dad is quite irresponsible anyway (that's another story) and is dismissing what I'm saying to him about this.

I’ve asked my partner if we can use our savings to book a flight there for a visit. At least then I’ll be close to her and can help with the situation because I feel powerless here.

AIBU to tell her to come home and end her travels early? I know she’s an adult but it’s hard to sit back and do nothing when you feel that your child could be in a dangerous situation.

Suggest she watches Tokyo Vice. It’s a great tv series based on a real journalist’s experience. Set in the 80s though, but might open her eyes a bit to yakuza and realities of working in a hostess club.

My sister has lived in Japan for 35 years and worked as a bar hostess at a similar age. It’s not sex work it’s basically chit chat. Like a sort of social club.

Lucie Blackman came across a psycho maniac who killed her. As far as I remember he hired her for private English lessons.

She should speak to the manager in the first instance. If he doesn’t bar the guy she can find another club. Maybe have a work with the local police too.

She won’t engage with the police presumably for fear of her irregular visa status being flagged. I mean, I agree with you that working in a hostess club isn’t n itself in any way concerning, apart, obviously, from the fairly problematic idea of men buying a woman’s attention. My sister lived in Tokyo for years and far preferred it to her daytime gig of yea hing babies English with flash cards.

Is there a support organisation in the country that you can find and put her in touch with OP? One for women or expats preferably, or I'm sorry to say for prostituted people. She's pretty vulnerable without a visa, no matter how tough and grown up she thinks she is.

Also your husband needs to step up.

Having lived there for several years, Japan is in general much safer than the UK, and yes, including the hostess bars. Lucie Blackman was shocking because it was so unusual for the country.

However, if she got caught for visa fraud, anything to do with being involved in the criminal justice system in Japan is a nightmare - foreigners are often not given translators/interpreters, and also sleep deprivation is used to contribute to the ~94% conviction rate (my figures may be out of date) largely based on "confessions" which may not have been ethically obtained.

If she has a degree, it would be very easy to get a decent TEFL job out there, but would need to come home and apply properly. Without a degree, I believe it's still possible but harder (not sure, own research required)
https://jetprogramme.org/en/ is well supported and generally paid better than the commercial English schools.

Also, Tokyo isn't particularly representative of Japan in general, as London isn't of the UK - maybe suggest that if she's interested in having a more authentic experience, she could also take time living somewhere else in the country, and having a legit job route would mean she could travel/work around the country in different areas more - presenting benefits to alternatives that might appeal to her more, rather than just trying to stop an adult doing something they want to, which isn't likely to be that successful.

You are absolutely right to be concerned about your daughter, but how you handle the situation is key I think. Lots of sound advice already.
Children rarely want to listen to parents advice - maybe write an email or letter to her outlining your concerns. Try to stay factual/limit emotional - this will hopefully mean she can process the information without pressure/reaction/emotion.
It might be worth making contact with the British counsel to see if they can support at all.
I don't think I would do it but a little bit of me could be tempted to tip off the authorities in Japan about her lack of visa........
Good luck

I think your use of the word "telling" in the original post is a concern that you think you are in charge. You are not, so handle any conversation with tact and intelligence.

I would try to get out there ASAP if possible .It sounds very worrying .However she is an Adult and you cant make her come home .Would it be at all possible for your DP to come with you? Can you contact the police or Japanese embassy here first? Going out there as a single woman may put you in danger too.

Thanks for your advice.
DD does have a degree and she told me initially that she was teaching English but this turned out to be untrue. When she said she had a casual job in a 'bar' I didn't think much of it because she worked in a bar while studying. But a hostess bar is a different thing entirely and I feel like I was misled by DD and exH.

I'm looking at flights to Japan. My sister has offered to come with me if she can get some time off work. I would prefer this as I'm not confident doing long flights alone. DP is fine with this and is happy to look after my youngest while he's away. He understands how worried I am but it's difficult to talk as my youngest DD is around when we're both home and we're having to discuss things when she's in bed because she is anxious after what she heard before.

I won't even tell DD1 I'm going to Japan because of this. I'll say that I wanted to visit her and see the country. She might not believe me but I don't care at this point.

My sister suggested messaging the friend she's out there with to ask if things are ok. I have a good relationship with her because she's been friends with DD for a long time but I'm worried it'll seem odd. But I'm so worried about this man who's been following her. I want more information about him and how long this has been going on. I couldn't sleep last night for thinking about things he could do now he knows where she lives.

I have some knowledge of hostess bars from previous research work I did many years ago and I have to say it isn't something I'd want my dd doing. No, it's not sex work, but it can be exploitative.

I would offer to support her in setting herself up in more legit work, particularly if you are able to help with financing visa costs, housing, etc. in the short term. I would sell it to her as you know she wants to live there and is loving her life there. But doing illegal work risks her immigration status. If she's caught, beyond facing prison time, she could likely be deported and banned from ever entering the country again. If she sees a future there, the sensible thing is not to throw it away doing something stupid and illegal in the short term.

This story made me think of Lucie Blackman

My first thought too

The country isn't the problem her choice of job is. Book a flight. Check on her

Def go out and see her but make it out that it’s a holiday not a rescue mission

Japan Is safe and the Lucie Blackman thing was an awful but one off tragedy. Generally it’s extremely safe. But working there without the right visa is asking for trouble. It’s not hard to get a visa to teach English but they can only be secured outside the country IIRC.

very difficult to convince her to come back though. You just to hope the novelty wears off. It did for me (I wasn’t hostessing !) though my mother was certainly worried at the time that I’d never come back

The working illegally would worry me more than anything

You do not want to get tangled up in the criminal justice system - almost everyone prosecuted gets convicted, police fit people up, forced confessions the lot. It's very punitive.

Are you absolutely certain that she still has her passport? Make sure the bar aren’t holding it as part of her ‘terms’. Is she able to quit the job without hassle if she wanted to? As someone said earlier, it’s not actually about the ‘work’ she’s doing which is 99% just general chat, it’s about who owns and manages these bars. Do they see her as someone who could make a lot of money for them, does she attract wealthy ‘clients’? What happens when they ask her to work in another bar further from home or at private events, can she say no?

I can’t tell if she realises she’s in a sticky situation & doesn’t want to worry you or if she’s really just naive to it all. This man that followed her home, what if he had tried to get in or tried to hurt her… would she have called the police or be too scared? Would she be able to communicate with the emergency line, can she speak Japanese?

Do you know the parents of the friends she’s with, to reach out to? I’d probably start there.

Definitely good advice to report it to the police, he sounds like a creep. And do go out and see her as well.

But 'come back home where your family are' is very patronising to a 22 year old, and is actually not going to solve her problems.

She's not a child and there is no reason why 'coming home' will make her any happier or better off.

You shouldn't put pressure on her like this - she needs to spread her wings and make her own life in a place that feels right for her.

Is she taking safety precautions at all OP? Is she being accompanied home, is her home secure?
I was a stripper (in the UK and other European countries however) until a year or so ago however I was SO careful. I'd always be walked to my car/taxi even if it meant waiting 45 minutes for a bouncer to become free for example. Is she aware of dangers?
Reality is there isn't much you can do with her being an adult, sadly.
I'd be worried too-especially about the visa situation. Does she have good friends and other things or is this work her life? Those kind of worlds can absolutely suck you in if you don't keep an eye on things.

‘I’d encourage her to tell the bar owner, usually these places have policies about not harassing staff’

😂😂😂

The girls are the main attraction, not the over priced whiskey or fizzy wine. The bar owners are usually in hock to the crime syndicates, or profiting from the uneasy contract between the guests and the girls. ‘Harassing’ will only be addressed if it is interfering with the smooth running of the establishment, or
Profitability.

Save your money though OP, it will be better used if there is a crisis and she needs bailing out or evacuating at short notice. Two western women who don’t speak Japanese will have zero influence with anyone : police, bar owners, the senior ‘girls’ , the clients.

I love Japan , and I greatly respect their culture, but if you want a glimpse of what life might be like on another planet, Japan is probably your best bet.

She does speak some Japanese. It wasn't her main degree but she studied it as an elective at university and did some private studying before she went.
I'm not sure if she has still her passport and I don't know much at all about the hostess bar. I only found out recently and was shocked so didn't ask this. We usually talk on the phone at the weekend so I will ask when I call her on Sunday. I really hope nobody has taken her passport. I don't think she would voluntarily give it up. She says she is doing well at the bar and has a lot of requests. She even told me that she was requested by a large group of businessmen so she is probably making a lot of money for these people. It's hard to see how proud she is of all this because I don't want her main role in life to be being ogled by sleazy older men.

I asked her a lot of questions about the creepy man last time we spoke but she was downplaying it. Lots of 'it's not a big deal/ he's just lonely.' I asked if anyone travels with her between home and the bar and she says her friend walks with her if they are working at the same time or she gets a taxi if it's late.

I will see ExH at the weekend when he drops our son off. I'm going to raise a lot of the things that people have said here and make him take me seriously. He needs to realise that this is his daughter's safety and to stop being so blasé about it.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen very good points-and yes, those bars will not have such policies! The 'girls' are their product. I dont know much about Japan but I know enough to know I would not feel safe there even as a middle aged female, let alone a young attractive one.

How did you get on @TeaAddicted ? I hope your ex more on board with support ?

Hi OP, I think you are right to be concerned but trying to force her home will only push her away. I taught English in Japan at your daughter's age and if my parents had tried to get me to come home it would have had the opposite effect I think; I was having the time of my life! I suspect your daughter is too and if she is hostessing she may well be on good money which would be hard to give up.

I think you should try to speak to her and calmly explain your valid feelings and fears about 2 separate issues:
-the work she is doing on the wrong visa, as others have said she may well be kicked out for this and if she loves it so much I can't believe she'd want to jeopardise her chance of staying there. There are loads of options to teach English but she really does need to do it through proper channels. Maybe talk to her about her long-term goals and get her to come up with a plan.

-working as a hostess; I do think Japan on the whole is extremely safe and although you might be thinking the worst, there are lots of girls who do this and it most likely is the case she is just paid to chat. The worry I would have is the ones who get obsessed with foreign women. As well as Lucie Blackman, my immediate thought was of Lindsay Hawker, another awful story. I can't lie, I would be concerned about someone following her home BUT in this day and age of social media and tracking and all that, could you get her to at least agree to regular contact to let you know she is safe and for her to always make sure she goes home with a friend? Does she live with anyone else?

I really do sympathise as I can see it from both sides - I think focus on communicating with her and seeing what steps she is taking to keep herself safe and trusting her to look after herself. And as amazing as Japan is, most people don't stay there forever so hopefully she'll come home at some point!

Me too. I'd be asking her to come home and sending cash for the ticket if necessary.

Please don't pay too much attention to the uninformed, alarmist posters. I worked in Japan 30 odd years ago. I taught English during the day and worked as a hostess in the evenings. Most of us did the same thing to maximise earnings. The bars were legal, above-board and regulated. We were treated respectfully and at no time did I feel pressured into providing other 'services'. I don't know of anyone who did. It was great fun and I met a lot of interesting people. I did, however, have a work visa that I renewed by travelling to Korea. Don't be too spooked by the headlines. Japan is a safe country.

I agree in general, but OP’s daughter is working illegally, and presumably anyone prepared to hire illegal workers may not be completely above board. This puts her in a vulnerable position as I bet it will make her reluctant to seek official assistance in the case of any difficulties. She has also been followed home by a client which is extremely worrying.