To think that the mother/daughter duo who took Michaela to court should face some natural consequences?

[KTheGrey]

Apparently the mother involved wants to send her younger child to the school she finds so unsatisfactory in September. I don't think this is reasonable. I understand the logic of leaving a child at a school where they are established, but she should be expected to find a school she likes better for a younger sibling, surely.

She also intends to bring another suit, presumably tax payer funded again. I think that she should be expected to pay in full for any further suit she brings against the school. She could apply for costs if she wins.

And I would be astonished if all employers allow prayer breaks.

You wouldn't would you OP?

Of course employers allow prayer breaks. There may be guidance around timing & location but an employer cannot prevent expression of religion

On this particular case, I've become increasingly less a fan of this ultra-rigorous overly disciplined approach in general, and this school in particular. It in no way prepares students for the world.

Praying should have been allowed; the bullying & intimidation if occurring should have been dealt with separately.

It's judgment not judgement...

The school has the right to set it's own rules. It also has the right not to allow prayers or if so only at certain times which must be adhered to.

As I've previously said, if the parents of such religions who require prayers a certain times of day wish for their children to do this, if the school they send their children to does not allow this, then they should send their children to the appropriate faith school.

I was sent to a Catholic convent (mostly because it was strict, nothing to do with religion!) but the other Christian pupils including me, knew that when we attended this school that prayers in assembly, attending Mass once a week and other religious customs and celebrations were mandatory for all the Christian pupils. The same went for my brother who attended the local Catholic boys school (college). Pupils of other faiths were supposed to attend assemblies but not the other religious services or celebrations, unless they wanted to do so.

I am very pleased that the school won - the ethos of the school is to create a cohesive community with everyone eating and working together; religion is excluded from the school, and there are rules and high expectations around behaviour, study, discipline - which obviously works because the school gets outstanding results and is oversubscribed.

The family who sued, could have chosen another school in the area which allows religion to be practised, but decided not to - and indeed are sending a sibling - so a case of trying to have their cake and eat it too? Why should the whole ethos of the school have been changed, when there are alternatives available to this family? The rules are the same for every child in the school - all of whom agree to the rules before they enrol.

In a world which is increasingly polarised and divided, what the Michaela is trying to do, is really important IMO.

(I was a free school founder - it's a HUGE task and took YEARS to get our little school off the ground and so I have huge respect for Barbalsingh and her vision/drive - I personally think there should be more discipline/consequences for poor behaviour/respect for teachers by the pupils - and less/no religion in state schools, unless they are being exclusively funded and run by the religious communities they serve.)

The veiled racism and Islamaphobia in this thread is pretty disgusting. Praying takes maximum five minutes and it’s actually pretty shocking to not provide a facility for that in this day and age in a school or workplace should someone request it. It is entirely unreasonable to ban so simple
a request and is really out of touch and tone deaf in an area that has such a large Muslim population. The backlash against and
scandal about schools such as this will soon come out with their zero tolerance policies on discipline and behaviour. The exclusion rate and isolation figures and everyone will be shocked at how it was allowed to happen.

I think an employer could object to prayer breaks if they interfered with the employee's work and if they were proved to be excessive. But hopefully both parties would and do come to an agreement about this.

There are rules though about religion/faith, if I were bullied at work if I were a moderate Muslim, for not following the faith correctly or being haram if I chose to join a work choir, I'd go straight to HR and complain about this. This mother and her daughter had no right to intimidate and attack pupils and teachers nor to engage in inflammatory behaviour of this kind to incite racial hatred, and I hope the teacher who had a brick put through their window pressed criminal charges against the people who did this to them.

imagine living in Albania and sending your C of E children to a school and then demanding they be allowed to pray to Jesus during school hours and expecting the tax paying citizens of Albania to fund a law suit for you? No. Neither can I. Imagine how they would go down. Entitled.

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain why are you repeating yourself? Obviously I disagree with you.

My point which I thought was quite clear is that I’m very surprised the school’s right to set its own rules overrides the human right to expression of religion (during non teaching periods).
This appears a very slippery slope and I hope it is challenged so that there can be full clarity.

She should have sent her dd to a Muslim school then. Simple, would have avoided this.

It's their school, their rules.

They are entitled to do exactly as they pleased. A school is above all place for learning, not for religious praying.

If the case is eligible for state funding, then the state should pay. I do not actually know if this case was state-funded.

The state should pay for wider access to justice than it currently does, it was a disgrace it was cut back by the Tories. Access to justice is vital.

I think it is fine the parent/child took the school to court, courts are there to ensure the law is upheld. It is only by cases being taken to court that we can identify where the boundary of the law lies.

Not everyone is a doormat, and I support the use of the courts to test cases out.

I the (seemingly unlikely) event that anyone would like to read the judgment rather than just make assertions about it, here is the judgement

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Judgement-R-v-Michaela-Community-Schools-Trust.pdf

Any bullying that went on is surely irrelevant to the outcome here, either the school is entitled to set such rules or it is not?

I was repeating myself because obviously you don't get it.

There is no requirement to allow prayer breaks at work, although many employers do.

This school is interesting because it does get the results and the strict ethos is (probably) the reason so many Muslim families choose it, but I agree I can't see how it's preparing children for life.

I'm pleased it won the case on this issue though.

It is NOT their school. It is a state-funded school and it has to uphold the law, they are definitely not allowed to do exactly as they please.

What a peculiar attitude - as if a school can just ride roughshod over the rights of UK citizens. The case went to court, the court found in the school's favour, it was fine to ask the question.

I find it deeply irritating. There are breaks and lunchtime opportunities where students, if they wish, can pray. There is no need to bring it into the school day, which will affect, disrupt and compromise the education of millions of children.

I don’t support further legal action at all. For goodness sake, you sign your children up to a school or homeschool if your religious beliefs impose strict routines that can not be facilitated in any reasonable way by a standard school.

We need to get a grip - I fear this will be even worse if we end up with a Labour government pandering constantly to exactly this kind of thing.

So posters don’t think teenaged pupils should be permitted to pray during their breaks? How utterly bizarre. You do know many non religious secondary schools have religious clubs? Where pupils will certainly be praying according to their various religions.
And adults are always permitted to
pray in their work breaks, I don’t understand the view that it should be different for young people.

It was at lunchtime, that's the point.

Pandering to what kind of thing - people being a little bit different to you? Are you really so scared that someone might pray in a different way to you?

Ok, it is a state funded school, that's what I meant. But the headteacher is the headteacher and her rules obviously go.

There are lots of pupils in this school who say they are happy with the discipline here.

Because it will constantly disrupt other children’s education and is unfair on them and the teachers.

So don't vote Labour.

Adults are permitted to pray in their work breaks, presumably if it is not excessive and doesn't interfere with their work.

The pupils could have prayed outside school, at home, before or after school.

Her rules go up to a point. If she breaks the law, it is not acceptable. The pupil was asking a resonable question - is this rule in line with British law.

We have an advanced legal system and it is right to use it.

Why so many people want us to be a bloody dictatorship I do not know.

At this school there aren't, that was the point. The children wanted to pray during their break, but as PPs have explained , this led to students putting pressure on those who didn't want to pray.

I don’t think anyone was expecting to pray during lessons?? The school banned people praying at all. Ie in their private break time and free time during lunch. Never once in my 39 years have I ever asked to pray at work or school outside a dedicated break time or used time on top of a break to pray and neither have any of my friends or Muslims I know. (The only exception would be for Friday prayers which would have been ideally done during a lunch break or agreed to by an employer with time made up elsewhere but I have never done this).