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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think sex is a misogynistic concept?

137 replies

belfastjun · 15/04/2024 12:34

The more I read about sexual violence, crimes against women and unrealistic expectations from men the more I think the act of having sex is just a misogynistic concept.

It wasn't that long ago that sex was purely seen as pleasurable for men and something a woman should just have to endure to please them. The whole idea of whore/virgin as well is misogynistic in itself.

I feel like there will always be some subconscious misogyny in the back of their minds when having sex with a partner etc.

AIBU to not want to have sex to free myself of what I feel is a toxic patriarchy? I do have sexual trauma so don't know if this is skewing my view somewhat.

OP posts:
BMW6 · 15/04/2024 18:42

It wasn't that long ago that sex was purely seen as pleasurable for men and something a woman should just have to endure to please them.

From my reading and studies there was a comparatively short period when this view was held by some men in UK society - in the 19th century. It hasn't been the view for most of human history.

Certainly before then female pleasure in sex was thought to promote pregnancy, and it is known to be beneficial now.

Desecratedcoconut · 15/04/2024 18:49

In fact often women were sent to physicians for a 'special massage' so that their firey lusts could be tamed.

Was that not because women with good reason to be generally pissed off were diagnosed with hysteria, also known as the wandering womb, and it was 'tamed' by a lucrative income stream for doctors of the wealthy in this manner?

IvorTheEngineDriver · 15/04/2024 18:54

If you don't want to have sex - fine.

Your "reasoning" however, (and I use the word in the loosest sense) is utterly bizzare.

WeShallHaveFogByTeatime · 15/04/2024 19:07

Parts of it are, but the vast majority of animals have the female animal completely in charge of any sexual activity. Rape only tends to happen in domestic/intensive farmed animals and human animals.
Also If that was entirely true gay women would never have sex.
There is obviously a big history in FM of women so they don't enjoy sex.
Absolutely nothing wrong with abstaining from sex for whatever reason.
It's not something that's important to me at all.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 15/04/2024 19:10

Worldgonecrazy · 15/04/2024 12:55

Modern sex? Definitely. It’s commonly depicted as over when the man orgasms. (I expect a few women will chime in here ….)

But there has to be an evolutionary reason to the female orgasm. It is so much more powerful than the male orgasm, and we can have repeated orgasms. That makes me wonder what sex was like back in pre-caveman times!

I thought the female orgasm made it easier for the sperm to get to the spot.

rainbowsweets · 15/04/2024 19:15

"I thought the female orgasm made it easier for the sperm to get to the spot."

Isn't one theory that the female orgasm /contractions push the sperm upwards towards the womb? It was believed in the Tudor era that women needed to have an orgasm to conceive.

CantBelieveNaive · 15/04/2024 19:17

Place marking xx

Original poster
belfastjun · 15/04/2024 19:22

I'll catch up on the comments later. Thanks for all the insightful posts

OP posts:
SwordToFlamethrower · 15/04/2024 19:22

Woah woah woah. You know that only women have an organ purely evolved for pleasure and nothing else, right?

WeShallHaveFogByTeatime · 15/04/2024 19:22

rainbowsweets · 15/04/2024 19:15

"I thought the female orgasm made it easier for the sperm to get to the spot."

Isn't one theory that the female orgasm /contractions push the sperm upwards towards the womb? It was believed in the Tudor era that women needed to have an orgasm to conceive.

That has been disproved in many, many studies.
Also it's been used historically in a "You obviously could not have been raped because you are pregnant"

JMSA · 15/04/2024 19:24

Pheasantsmate · 15/04/2024 12:46

I’ve definitely had some partners where this is very much the case, and put up with it for too long.

I think as I’ve gotten older and more experienced I’ve learned what not to put up with, and also how to spot the signs before that stage.

Yeah, same 👍

Hiker50 · 15/04/2024 19:25

I have two really bright friends who talk about having to have sex with their husbands when they don't want to because the make their lives miserable if they don't.
Ick! Awful

NettleTea · 15/04/2024 19:27

Desecratedcoconut · 15/04/2024 18:49

In fact often women were sent to physicians for a 'special massage' so that their firey lusts could be tamed.

Was that not because women with good reason to be generally pissed off were diagnosed with hysteria, also known as the wandering womb, and it was 'tamed' by a lucrative income stream for doctors of the wealthy in this manner?

I think that was a bit later - I was reading about the lives of medieval women

NettleTea · 15/04/2024 19:28

SwordToFlamethrower · 15/04/2024 19:22

Woah woah woah. You know that only women have an organ purely evolved for pleasure and nothing else, right?

I suspect the orgasm is important for more than just pleasure, but being part of the female anatomy, they just havent bothered looking. I expect its very much to do with reproduction

skyfalldown · 15/04/2024 19:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

OkPedro · 15/04/2024 19:30

Yes your thinking is skewed.. as is mine. Sexual trauma will do that to us 😞

Grendacious · 15/04/2024 19:34

I know what you mean op. When it comes to sex women are far more vulnerable than men in a variety of ways: pregnancy and its consequences, the physical strength of men meaning women can be forced into sex but not vice versa (as a rule of thumb), the manner of sex itself meaning they are more easily injured, and the testosterone drive in men meaning they are often on the hunt for sex in a way that women are not.

There's definitely a profound inequality there, but I'm not sure it equals misogyny. I think individual men have the power to decide for themselves whether that vulnerability should be exploited for misogynistic purposes. But I feel the fact that they can also take a different path and have loving and equal sex with their partner means sex can't be misogynistic by default.

Original poster
belfastjun · 15/04/2024 19:34

Hiker50 · 15/04/2024 19:25

I have two really bright friends who talk about having to have sex with their husbands when they don't want to because the make their lives miserable if they don't.
Ick! Awful

This is what I mean. I'm not arguing that lots of women enjoy sex. But I believe a lot of men have been so corrupted by toxic pornography and misogynistic views that^^ they view sex as power and something they 'do' to a woman as opposed to a mutual exchange of love/pleasure.

Anyway, I know I need therapy for my trauma but I'm not in a place where I can afford it and I'm worried about the things it will resurface.

OP posts:
belfastjun · 15/04/2024 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Removing this as it refers to a deleted post.

SwordToFlamethrower · 15/04/2024 19:36

Pre Christian societies the world over worshipped the goddess. Females being creative and magical.

Giat · 15/04/2024 20:55

belfastjun · 15/04/2024 19:34

This is what I mean. I'm not arguing that lots of women enjoy sex. But I believe a lot of men have been so corrupted by toxic pornography and misogynistic views that^^ they view sex as power and something they 'do' to a woman as opposed to a mutual exchange of love/pleasure.

Anyway, I know I need therapy for my trauma but I'm not in a place where I can afford it and I'm worried about the things it will resurface.

Show quote history

I think you're again conflating what happened to you with 'men'. Some men are awful, some women are awful. No healthy man would view sex as something they do 'to' a woman... It wouldn't be the experience it could/should be. My dp would be extremely affected if I wasn't as into it as he was

Please look into charities for affordable counselling, especially emdr as I think whatever you don't want to surface is already more present in your thinking/way of looking at the world... How could it not be.... I wish you the freedom from your trauma that you deserve x

Brawcolli · 15/04/2024 21:19

VoiceOfCommonSense · 15/04/2024 15:52

Jesus, you sound like fun love..

Show quote history

What a nasty, condescending thing to say to someone who’s experienced sexual trauma. Unnecessary.

DuckDuck1234 · 15/04/2024 21:24

It wasn't that long ago that sex was purely seen as pleasurable for men and something a woman should just have to endure to please them.

It's a common mistake to think the Victorian era's hangups are representative of all historical beliefs. The Victorian prudishness, anti-sex views, women are angels of the home etc was itself a backlash to previous decades of permissiveness.

There have been many points in history where sex was definitely seen as pleasurable for everyone involved. In fact, as I understand it, during medieval times women were assumed to get more pleasure from sex than men. (Of course, this was then used as a reason to place restrictions on women to 'protect' them from their urges).

We are not the first society where men and women have had lovers, affairs, multiple partners, kinky sex and so on. It's just that in the past it was generally only the upper classes that could afford to take the risk (socially, and the risk of pregnancy).

Bridgetta · 16/04/2024 05:36

SwordToFlamethrower · 15/04/2024 19:36

Pre Christian societies the world over worshipped the goddess. Females being creative and magical.

Patriarchy is much much older than Christianity tbh it’s almost just part of the human condition. Not much evidence for a widespread matriarchal culture. Most said to be matriarchal involve men having to make long trips overseas or mountains (so gone for years at a time) and society had evolved to adjust to those realities.

Bridgetta · 16/04/2024 05:42

view sex as power and something they 'do' to a woman as opposed to a mutual exchange of love/pleasure

I don’t think it’s that deep. Most men like this are opportunistic and try to get sex where they can. It’s not a modern life thing, controlling the male sexual urge has been a key challenge of civilisation in my view