To think sex is a misogynistic concept?

[belfastjun]

The more I read about sexual violence, crimes against women and unrealistic expectations from men the more I think the act of having sex is just a misogynistic concept.

It wasn't that long ago that sex was purely seen as pleasurable for men and something a woman should just have to endure to please them. The whole idea of whore/virgin as well is misogynistic in itself.

I feel like there will always be some subconscious misogyny in the back of their minds when having sex with a partner etc.

AIBU to not want to have sex to free myself of what I feel is a toxic patriarchy? I do have sexual trauma so don't know if this is skewing my view somewhat.

Sex can be different things to different people - undoubtedly there are some people who treat other people like objects when it comes to sex (I'd guess more men toward women in this regard, but I have no stats, so it is only a guess), however there's much more to it than that. Sex shouldn't even be weaponised either though.

Some truth in this, although I agree, OP, with possibly seeking help for your trauma.
However, when I hit 42, something clicked, unexpected, unplanned, and I cannot imagine having sex ever again. Just.. no. The train doesn't ride over this. And happy with that choice. 🙂

Obviously rape is the depressing - go to - tool of misogyny. Whether that's on a grand scale - rape in war to terrorise a nation, or in the domestic setting to terrorise an individual.

For women without trauma, sex is a pleasure, it isn't an act that is harmful or necessitates a loss of autonomy or power.

Obviously, it's fine to sign out from sex. I don't think it helps to declare that all sex that all women have with men is a toxic, self sabotaging act of deference to the patriarchy.

It wasn't that long ago that sex was purely seen as pleasurable for men and something a woman should just have to endure to please them.

That is a stereotype though. There have always been plenty of women who enjoyed sex. Arguably, what's misogynistic is that since time immemorial, women who admit to liking sex have been shamed as sluts and women who don't want to have sex have been shamed as being frigid.

Sex is obviously not a misogynistic concept, it’s not even a human concept, it’s a biological function, it’s how life has evolved. However, how men have weaponised sex and tried to control women around it, sure is.

It’s not a stereotype, women were put in institutions for enjoying sex or ‘claiming’ to have had an orgasm. It was men controlling women, they didn’t want us to enjoy sex, because then we might cheat, we see exactly the same behaviour from men in many cultures, look at FGM for example.

@VoiceOfCommonSense does sexual trauma sound like fun to you? Really.

No not for me
What would the purpose of it be in same sex relationships be?

For me it's like cooking

100% cooking can be seen as women's work, as something that's a woman's duty to provide with a long history of sex based assumptions

Currently I enjoy cooking, I like creating new dishes nourishing both myself and my partner. I feel I need to eat home cooked stuff to thrive, mostly we sharing cooking food for the both of us, sometimes it's a meal for the both of us and sometimes it's a meal that one person enjoys more than the other or a meal just for one person. It's feels like a big part of our relationship

I'd feel very differently if I was expected to cook every night, if duties weren't shared, if I was be asked to cook and eat food that I did not like repeatedly.

YANBU not to to have sex if you don't want to.

However, YABU to claim that sex is a misogynistic concept,. You're implying that every woman who enjoys sex is some kind of brainwashed victim of predatory men who actually hate them, and that's just nonsense I'm afraid. You are not somehow more enlightened than the millions of women who have a happy sex life, and have seen some kind of light that the rest of us haven't.

You mention that you have some sexual trauma in your past and I sympathise with you for that, but you are projecting your own issues on to other people here. I suspect that, for whatever reason, you don't want to have sex with men, but rather than just owning that saying 'You know what? I've had traumatic time with sex in the past and I'm just not into it, so I'm not going to put myself through it any more' you are trying to validate that by making into a blanket feminist statement.

Honestly, you don't need to dress it up as anything. You are totally entitled not to have sex and there is nothing wrong with that choice. You don't need to justify it in any way and you don't need to attach any ideology to it.

It wasn't that long ago that sex was purely seen as pleasurable for men and something a woman should just have to endure to please them.

You are perpetuating that idea, though. By saying 'It's fundamentally misogynist to have sex' you are, yourself, denying women the agency of making their own sexual choices and positioning all women as victims, which is in itself misogyny.

I'm sure it doesn't. I do the VoiceOfCommonSense makes a reasonable point though which is that once you've decided that all sex is tainted by misogyny then the logical conclusion is that women who enjoy sex have been duped, suffering from a false consciousness or something similarly maladaptive. The idea that a woman who enjoys sex should be treated with suspicion and concern would bring us back to an old and worrisome narrative.

If you don’t want to have sex, you don’t have to, regardless of the reason. It’s not an obligation.

Nobody has said that.

If you'd said 'AIBU not to have sex because I've been traumatised by it in the past?' nobody would have said anything about 'fun'. But you didn't say that. You said 'AIBU to think sex is misogynistic?' and then talked about that for several paragraphs before only mentioning very briefly that you'd been sexually traumatised and only said that 'might' be a factor.

Exactly this.

@belfastjun Hi OP, I recently listened to a talk about this which I thought maybe you'd like too, it's more or less about women choosing abstinence/celibacy. You can find it on YouTube by Women's Declaration International (WDI), it's called "RFP Neither ‘incel’ nor ‘volcel’: Relational accounts of UK women's sexual abstinence by K. Cuthbert"

Why on earth do you think that (some) men didn’t commonly think sex was over after his orgasm in pre-modern times?

You can’t seriously think that men were all selfless lovers before the year 2000?!

It’s not a stereotype, women were put in institutions for enjoying sex or ‘claiming’ to have had an orgasm. It was men controlling women, they didn’t want us to enjoy sex, because then we might cheat, we see exactly the same behaviour from men in many cultures, look at FGM for example.

You must have misunderstood my post. I was saying that the idea that the typical woman tolerates sex but doesn't enjoy it is a stereotype. And it is. Some women enjoy sex and some don't. That has no doubt always been the case. I mentioned in that same post the shaming of women for liking sex, so I'm also not sure why you think I need that pointing out.

Women “weaponise” sex too and seek to use it as a means of control and influence. It’s not a one way street.

Of course, men have tended to be more violent in how they have done so.

I’d say your sexual trauma is skewing your view a lot.

It would be very sad if your abuser takes away any chance you ever have of enjoying healthy sex.

If you want to become celibate then that’s up to you, but it won’t ‘free you from toxic patriarchy’. Instead it will deny you the possibility of bonding and enjoyment within a loving respectful relationship.

I would check you’re taking this view because you really believe in it rather than using it as a way to avoid something that understandably scares you.

Ah I see, yes I agree with you on that point

I agree with this. Sex is often seen as phallo-centric. “Real” sex starts with penetration and ends with ejaculation for many people, not just obviously sexist men. Anything before is “just” foreplay.

I agree with this.

What a fucking awful, smug post!

Yes, this!

The concept of women enjoying sex isn't new at all. It's only in the last few centuries that it kinda fell out of fashion for women to enjoy it. We didn't invent the female orgasm, we only re-discovered it.

women not enjoying sex, or being interested in sex, is a pretty modern, western concept.
Indeed in the middle ages it was considered that women were the ones with the voracious sexual appetites, and if men didnt service them correctly, they were likley to have it away with any passing stable boy who could satisfy their urges. In fact often women were sent to physicians for a 'special massage' so that their firey lusts could be tamed.
Right up until Georgian times women again were considered the bawdy lustful ones - a man was required to have hold and control of his passions - even if only for show.
Alot of what is thought of now - that it is men who need sex, and women who are not interested, come from a mix of puritan attitudes and Victorian England.

I believe that Islam considers that desire was made in 10 parts, and 9 parts were given to women - thats an excuse as to why they may be considered so 'dangerous' - although a man is supposed to sexually satisfy his wife - one Egyptian friend told me that it was a reason that can be given for a woman to request a divorce, but I would need more than that single anecdote to say thats the truth.