To think dd aged 16 is too young to go away on holiday independently

[Manthide]

Dd is in y11 and is going to sit her gcses this summer. Until about last October she only occasionally went out with friends- partly due to covid and being used to 'socialising' online. Since then she has made new friends who seem to want to be out and about all the time. None of them live near us - dd goes to a private girls school. 2 are boys in y10 and y11, the other is a girl in y11. They all seem nice enough though I've only really met them in passing.
Anyway this morning she was asking about going to Scotland on holiday with them with no parents and seemed to think I was being very unreasonable by saying she couldn't go without any adults. She is the youngest of my 4dc and none of the others went away solo until at least age 18. I am an older mum and after I finished my O levels I did go away for a week with friends but this was 43 years ago.
She does go away with army cadets and has lots of hobbies.

How would saying flat no play out? Does she then get to sit at home angry and resentful towards you while her pals go off on a fun bonding trip they will remember their whole lives? That would be a pretty hard core parenting decision. Not sure I would have the stomach for that scenario.

Dd very young for her year in age but sensible. Her (all female and also sensible) gang wanted to go abroad post gcse and planned it etc. As a parent group some of us were fine with it others not. In the end I went too but stayed 5 mins walk away. Dropped in on them once. They were fine but actually was lucky I was there as there were transport strikes in France on the day we came home which weren’t reported and I only knew about because of my lovely Airbnb lady. So they would have missed their flight home.

Personally I wouldn't let my DD go away without an adult but can see I'm in the minority here! But I'm pretty sure mine wouldn't want to. She's only been up for going into town with friends for about a year. Covid got in the way of that part of her development I guess.

I left home at 17 but I do think things are different now.
The people calling you a hypocrite maybe don't get how different things are. I don't think you're a hypocrite- just a caring mum. Stick to your guns if that's your instinct. You know how mature or not your child is.

@Glitterbaby17 what's the point?if they're going to have sex, what accommodation they've booked means nothing.

@Manthide unless they're staying with one of the groups family/friends I can't see how they're going to be able to book anywhere at 16 ?? Mm

what specifically are you worried about?

because yes, my initial thought was no bloody way, but thinking about it I did the same at her age & what is the actual problem?

@YeahComeOnThen it was probably a gut reaction! Dd3 is at that age where she thinks she knows everything. Her friends also appear know it alls. They are all predicted all 9s in their gcses and think academic excellence equates with common sense - which I think they all lack to a considerable degree. Of course they need to learn this themselves. I will consider carefully any plans and not veto a short break with safeguards.

Just make damn sure she knows how to stop herself from getting pregnant, just in case she does end up having sex.

Also they are in Scotland not El Salvador. If they were dappy and missed a train or something what’s the worst that would happen? If they are sensible teens who stay together, an adult has sense checked the plan and you are adamant no sex / single sex sleeping then I think definitely yes.

I only went with dds group because it was in another country.

Hmmm...possibly not.
It's funny cos I didn't jump to the 'they'll have sex regardless ' worry!
Or the hypocritical you did it comment! And actually it's probably safer as technology will allow her to contact you very easily, if needed, compared to 43 yrs ago!
My worry is how long she, andd you, have known her friends. If these were kids you had all known for a few years, you knew their families from school etc then I would probably say yes. Only knowing them for around 6mths I'd definitely be more wary.
Maybe if plans show thought etc I might consider it.

Yes, she's 16 and could chose to go, my friends ds left home the day he turned 16 and there was nothing they could do (no issues st home and he did it to protect/support his girlfriend who didn't have such a good family life).

I have not voted. I did it at 16. But a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and I’m now in my 40s.

l think it very much depends not on how old your daughter is, but how mature she actually is.

If you did it 43 years ago, she can manage it now with all the wonders of technology.
She's not flying to another country, so less worry about if she did need medical stuff.
Can you have a rule she checks in with you a couple times a day, once just before bed?
Would it be feasible to speak to any of her mates' parents? Just to kind of reassure yourself and have a bit of a joint plan?
If she does cadets she must know quite a few skills if they are going somewhere rural.
I honestly think it sounds like it would be good for her. I would have loved a holiday after my GCSEs. Though I was more than satisfied with Reading Festival, despite the crap lineup, lol.
It's a special time for teens, and to be given a bit of freedom to celebrate helps with independence in a controlled way. Some kids will be starting work in apprenticeships next year, so will need to act pretty mature. Let them enjoy the summer!

I went away independently for the first time post-GCSE with my close female friends. We got the train to the other end of the country and camped (all did guiding/scouts/DofE). My DPs trusted me and my friends, but I don't think they would have been happy with a mixed group of boys and girls.

Yes the recent friendship and involvement of boys gives pause for thought. In dds case it was a calm long standing all girl friendship group who had never done anything daft (that we knew of anyway)

I'd let her at 16.
At 17yrs I went to Turkey for a week with my friends.

I think I'd be pushing them to adapt it if possible to something closer to home where I'd have the ability to go and rescue them in a 4-6 hour time frame if necessary.

I guess I think that this sort of thing is the first step on the road to going backpacking in Australia or whatever and you need to do the simpler things first.

I think I went on my first solo trip at 17 but I'm not sure it would have been any different at 16.

I think it depends on your DD. I went away age 17 with a group of girls to wales and they were more experienced than me, I found I was pressured into doing things I didn’t want to with strange boys. Because I was young and naive I couldn’t get myself out of it. I wasn't used to drinking so much, or saying no!
I wouldn’t let my children go away if they were like me and I didn’t know their friends.

Hi op, the thing which would worry me....as I suspect it does you too... is the hiking element. Do any of them have any experience with hill walking? First aid qualifications? Weather conditions can change so rapidly that even experience walkers can be caught out. I'd want to know more about walking routes and plans to be honest.

I would have said that about my dd a few months ago. She barely goes to town on her own and covid has definitely stunted her social development. I wouldn't be surprised if she is ND as it runs in the family. I'll probably have to find a compromise.
Funnily enough having sex or sleeping arrangements wasn't even in my head! I don't think it's that sort of friendship group. She has told me the year 11 boy is gay. I think it's the way she sprung it on me.

That's it really - I think she'd feel pressured to go down a route she wouldn't have otherwise. She has her silver d of e and has done the around the coast walk on the Isle of Wight with the cadets. She knows basic first aid. The other 3 are also in the cadets.

The hiking element is a bit unpredictable I guess. But in principle I’d be fine with it if she’s a sensible girl. Well, probably not FINE, in that I’d worry the entire time, but I’d still let her go 😂

I went abroad post GCSE myself, as did most of my friends.

My DD went abroad alone at just turned 16. Eldest DS did at 17. My younger two would have been an absolute liability at that age though.

It's Scotland not Ayia Napa .

If you're really worried maybe you could plan a break in Scotland as well, but obviously not exactly where she is going. But honestly she sounds sensible and they will all have a lot of skills from cadets. There are flights and trains back to England from pretty much anywhere in Scotland so just make sure she has a bail out option if needed.

Went walking and youth hostelling with a bunch of friends after O levels, albeit 1974. Is the problem that these are new friends? Can you ask to meet them? Confirm sleeping arrangements-absolutely.

It's a no from me. I had quite a lot of freedom as a 16yo as our friendship group and I were very sensible. We survived, but that isn't good enough for my dc. We were in situations sometimes looking back that were dangerous and that we certainly couldn't handle - I'm obviously talking about men and booze. None of my 16yo's friendship group's parents would allow them to go on holiday together either. They camp fairly regularly, on farmland owned by one of the families, but even this is under review due to rural criminal activity there.

I think I would suggest that the group have a weekend together camping/hiking together somewhere reasonably local first. If they get on and behave in a safe way and enjoy it, I would allow the trip to happen with some boundaries in place. But let them find out if they're going to want to kill each other somewhere where you can drive over and pick them up!

That's a good idea. I went interrailing with friends in about 1984 post A levels (I was 18) and I actually came home a few days earlier than them as they were doing my head in! The year before we had stayed at a friend's holiday chalet in Cornwall- not the disastrous trip post O levels- and one friend ( who didn't come with us the following year) spent all her money on luxuries and didn't have enough for food.

@Manthide

we need to let teenagers rule the world while they know it all 😂

let's face it, they couldn't do a worse job than those doing it now!!

yep academic ability does not equate with common sense!! Mind, the least academic one doesn't have any either 😂

I think you just have to think 'What can they possibly do on a few days away that they couldn't do locally? Theres really nothing. It's just a sleep over a bit further away, so a bit harder to go & pick them up. 🤷🏻‍♀️

There are flights and trains back to England from pretty much anywhere in Scotland so just make sure she has a bail out option if needed.

It would really depend on where they’re planning on hiking. It’s easy to find yourself somewhere pretty remote and transport links outside the central belt aren’t as straightforward as you might think.

I’d want to know where they’re planning on walking - eg the West Highland Way is popular and walkers tend to look out for each other but if they’re planning higher hills I’d be more cautious.