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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think he should have booked annual leave

111 replies

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 11:24

Quick overview - ex went to court for a court order in regards to seeing our youngest. Judge wanted to know why he’d bothered, as he asked for less than he was currently being offered, but whatever. Long story short, according to the order, school holidays should be split 50/50 (in addition to some weekends in term time). Ex doesn’t really abide by this, and this year DD (now15) will spend just three weeks (out of the fourteen weeks school holidays) with him and his new partner, this last week was one of the three. She returned last night, and has just mentioned that she spent the whole week bored in her room, on her own, as her DF didn’t book any annual leave, and she can’t meet up with friends while she is staying there due to logistics, transport and distance. AIBU to think that if he’s going to insist she goes for a week, that he should at least book annual leave? I really want her to have a good relationship with him, but it feels as if he thwarts it at every turn. She seems less and less bothered about going at all, but I don’t want to be the one to say categorically that at her age she now has a choice, as I worry it could be classed as “parental alienation” - I’ve always just been quite matter of fact about following the court order as if it’s a “given” rather than a discussion.
(and yes, I know I can’t FORCE him to do anything, such as spend more time with our DD)

OP posts:
Berthatydfil · 07/04/2024 11:29

At 15 she can refuse to go although she should try to speak to him first and tell him how she feels.

KTheGrey · 07/04/2024 11:36

If he can only be bothered three weeks of the year, yes it should be AL.

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 12:16

She returned last night, and has just mentioned that she spent the whole week bored in her room, on her own,

had she not told you this whilst there?
i would have scooped her up and brought her home
and at 15…. quite honestly she could have refused to go or for bus / taxi home

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 12:17

I really want her to have a good relationship with him

why?

and at 15… the ship has sailed if he’s made no effort to date

Codlingmoths · 07/04/2024 12:21

Nah. You tell her if he is just working and she’d rather be home she can come home/you’ll pick her up that evening (assuming you’re working), then message him and say dd isn’t interested in hanging around at yours while you work, so if that happens again she will just pack up and head home/let me know and I’ll collect her after work. It’s her choice at her age and she isn’t silly, she knows you could have booked leave given the tiny amount of time she is there.

LlynTegid · 07/04/2024 12:24

Not even a day or two is unreasonable. If he was refused leave because others had asked first, then this could have been made clear from the outside so your DD could have said no to going.

LlynTegid · 07/04/2024 12:25

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 12:17

I really want her to have a good relationship with him

why?

and at 15… the ship has sailed if he’s made no effort to date

Agreed, as long as contact is possible if your DD wants it, that is enough.

Pinkpinkpink15 · 07/04/2024 12:32

She's 15, does she even want to go?

It's a shame he doesn't want to take leave, but you can't make him. She could try suggesting it for her next visit?

Essentially he isn't just going to change & if she's still choosing to go, she needs to try to get out of it what she wants. Though that's probably to feel wanted & loved, or kid, that's not going to suddenly happen.

sparkellie · 07/04/2024 13:10

I don't think telling her it's her choice what she does is parental alienation. If you made her feel bad about going or gave her reasons not to go that would be different. My son is 15 and I have just started (this week) to give him the option of staying at home or going to his dad's. He's chosen to go today, but not the rest of the week, when I have had short shifts. There's nothing wrong with giving her the choice. Essentially she doesn't want to go because he's given her no reason to. And that's only on him.

FarmGirl78 · 07/04/2024 13:17

Courts will usually take into account the feelings and wishes of children 13(ish) and above. As she's so close to 16 if she says she doesn't want to go a judge wouldn't force her and her 'choice' would very much be taken into account.

Telling a 15 year old they have a choice (from the point of view of wishes and feelings) is in no way parental alienation. Please don't worry about letting her know her feelings are valid and being listened to. I'd she chooses not to go, and he doesn't like it then she needs to know you are prepared to return to court to get the CAO changed.

AGodawfulsmallaffair · 07/04/2024 13:22

Codlingmoths · 07/04/2024 12:21

Nah. You tell her if he is just working and she’d rather be home she can come home/you’ll pick her up that evening (assuming you’re working), then message him and say dd isn’t interested in hanging around at yours while you work, so if that happens again she will just pack up and head home/let me know and I’ll collect her after work. It’s her choice at her age and she isn’t silly, she knows you could have booked leave given the tiny amount of time she is there.

Yes yes yes. It’s a shame she didn’t tell you at the time, so you could bring her home. She really is old enough to decide if she wants to see him, my guess is she won’t be going for a week again.

FlippyFloppyShoe · 07/04/2024 13:23

It's so sad to see the disappointment or anger in your DC when they realise that they are not the other parents priority 😢. I feel for you and your DD. I agree with the others that at 15 if she doesn't want to go, then I wouldn't force it, but can understand how that would make you sad.

Cherrysoup · 07/04/2024 13:26

Please tell her what pp have said. I can’t imagine any 15 year old I know (bar some of the obsessed with Fortnite boys) being happy stuck in a house alone for a week.

canyouletthedogoutplease · 07/04/2024 13:34

She's fifteen, nothing is going to set on fire if you tell her that she has a choice, and she should have a choice. If she doesn't want to sit in a bedroom for a week, then why would you encourage that on his behalf instead of advocating for her? He's lucky that she didn't get herself on a bus out of there.

No it's not a good idea to badmouth her father, but yes, you can give her the truth and tell her that she's well past the age where a court would take her wishes and feelings into account when making an order.

BibbleandSqwauk · 07/04/2024 13:35

It's not parental alienation at all. My ds is a touch younger but makes a lot of noise occasionally about not wanting to go and having a somewhat ambivalent relationship with his dad. I have said to him that whilst in the end he can't be forced, most teens go through phases of not liking a parent much but in together families they don't really have a choice but to see them and once they grow through it, the relationship is intact. In divorced families, if they exercise their choice not to go it can sever the relationship completely which they may regret when older. Maybe look at shorter visits or more flexibility but also, in as neutral a way as possible, raise it with the ex. You might get a negative response but if you frame it as simply passing on your dd's words you aren't telling him what to do.

Concannon88 · 07/04/2024 13:43

@ shes 15? Just let her decide if she wants to go there at all

Runnerduck34 · 07/04/2024 14:25

Codlingmoths · 07/04/2024 12:21

Nah. You tell her if he is just working and she’d rather be home she can come home/you’ll pick her up that evening (assuming you’re working), then message him and say dd isn’t interested in hanging around at yours while you work, so if that happens again she will just pack up and head home/let me know and I’ll collect her after work. It’s her choice at her age and she isn’t silly, she knows you could have booked leave given the tiny amount of time she is there.

Agree with this.
He should have booked annual leave and arranged to spend time with her , days out, activities etc particularly as the location leaves her isolated from her friends .
I think at 15 she can definitely decide where and who she spends the holidays with- no point her being there if he's at work all the time and she's alone.

Original poster
BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 14:52

Thanks for the input. I’ve just been worrying that if I raise the subject and tell her that she has a choice, that it’ll sound as if I’m sowing the seeds of trying to break that tie. If she raised the subject herself, ie worded it as “do I have to go”, I’d 100% tell her that she could stay here.
As it is, if I suggest that she stay there a little later/ go for longer than stated in CAO she says no, so I’ve pretty much given up on that.

OP posts:
brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:15

so she’s never expressed reluctance to go? Or had plans that means she’s said to you “do i have to go mum?”

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:16

. I’ve just been worrying that if I raise the subject and tell her that she has a choice, that it’ll sound as if I’m sowing the seeds of trying to break that tie.

if we were talking about a 5 year old, i could see your point

but we’re talking about a 15 year old!!

Did she not message or call you whilst she was stuck all week there alone doing nothing?

Original poster
BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:46

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:15

so she’s never expressed reluctance to go? Or had plans that means she’s said to you “do i have to go mum?”

Sometimes she rolls her eyes, but doesn’t ask if she is obliged to go.

OP posts:
Original poster
BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:48

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:16

. I’ve just been worrying that if I raise the subject and tell her that she has a choice, that it’ll sound as if I’m sowing the seeds of trying to break that tie.

if we were talking about a 5 year old, i could see your point

but we’re talking about a 15 year old!!

Did she not message or call you whilst she was stuck all week there alone doing nothing?

When we first split, her father refused her access to her phone when she was with him, and I was not allowed to make contact. I suppose we’ve just got used to very little contact in those weeks. The occasional message to ask if she’s ok, or if she’s having a good time.

OP posts:
brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:48

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:46

Sometimes she rolls her eyes, but doesn’t ask if she is obliged to go.

Show quote history

so she’s 15 and never had any plans that clash with going to her dad’s?

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:49

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:48

When we first split, her father refused her access to her phone when she was with him, and I was not allowed to make contact. I suppose we’ve just got used to very little contact in those weeks. The occasional message to ask if she’s ok, or if she’s having a good time.

Show quote history

how old was she when you split

she’s 15 now and was alone all week with her phone. odd she didn’t talk to you about being alone and nothing to do whilst she was there

brocollilover · 07/04/2024 15:49

The occasional message to ask if she’s ok, or if she’s having a good time.

and what did she say?