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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think he should have booked annual leave

111 replies

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 11:24

Quick overview - ex went to court for a court order in regards to seeing our youngest. Judge wanted to know why he’d bothered, as he asked for less than he was currently being offered, but whatever. Long story short, according to the order, school holidays should be split 50/50 (in addition to some weekends in term time). Ex doesn’t really abide by this, and this year DD (now15) will spend just three weeks (out of the fourteen weeks school holidays) with him and his new partner, this last week was one of the three. She returned last night, and has just mentioned that she spent the whole week bored in her room, on her own, as her DF didn’t book any annual leave, and she can’t meet up with friends while she is staying there due to logistics, transport and distance. AIBU to think that if he’s going to insist she goes for a week, that he should at least book annual leave? I really want her to have a good relationship with him, but it feels as if he thwarts it at every turn. She seems less and less bothered about going at all, but I don’t want to be the one to say categorically that at her age she now has a choice, as I worry it could be classed as “parental alienation” - I’ve always just been quite matter of fact about following the court order as if it’s a “given” rather than a discussion.
(and yes, I know I can’t FORCE him to do anything, such as spend more time with our DD)

OP posts:
BirthdayRainbow · 07/04/2024 18:22

Time with the non living with you parent should be for the child's benefit. There's no benefit for her so I'd tell her it is up to her what she does. That's not alienation.

BirthdayRainbow · 07/04/2024 18:24

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 15:46

Sometimes she rolls her eyes, but doesn’t ask if she is obliged to go.

Show quote history

The rolling of her eyes was your cue to ask her how she feels about going!

GingersOwner26 · 07/04/2024 18:35

LlynTegid · 07/04/2024 12:24

Not even a day or two is unreasonable. If he was refused leave because others had asked first, then this could have been made clear from the outside so your DD could have said no to going.

That, or would it have been possible for him to book a different week when others could cover, and then she visit him that week instead? How set in stone are the visit dates, could it have been moved if this was the issue?

Original poster
BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 18:40

GingersOwner26 · 07/04/2024 18:35

That, or would it have been possible for him to book a different week when others could cover, and then she visit him that week instead? How set in stone are the visit dates, could it have been moved if this was the issue?

Show quote history

The dates are set in stone, in so far as we both can make plans years in advance. But equally, I have never refused if he’s asked to swap the dates. The only reason I would do so, would be if we had actually booked to go on holiday, or something like that. I’m just sad that he wouldn’t make that effort. I KNOW that she’s old enough to entertain herself, although it’s more difficult from his house, than from ours, as I’ve explained elsewhere, but that’s not the question here.

OP posts:
zeibesaffron · 07/04/2024 18:46

I agree with you OP he could have taken time off to spend with your DD - he has really missed out!! What an idiot man, I bet she was bored to tears!! At least at yours she could have met her mates etc!!!

I think you are perfectly reasonable to think he could have spent a few days chilling with his DD - I do think though you need to ask your DD if she really wants to go in future as it sounds tedious for her!

BoohooWoohoo · 07/04/2024 18:54

You say that she had no plans with friends- does that mean she would have been bored at home too? Don’t most 15/16 year olds call an ordinary day boring because they are a very dramatic age? In my kids cases, seeing their friends is how they made their day “not boring”. Did she take some school books or hobby bits like reading books to pass the time ?

Most 15 year olds don’t have their parents or family home looking after them during the school holidays so I think it’s fine that dad went to work some days. yanbu to think that he should have made some time for her.

It’s not parental alienation to let her know that she has a choice. Tbh it sounds like she could opt for shorter periods with dad because they haven’t fallen out as such and make it clear that she expects some attention and time with him.

RandomMess · 07/04/2024 19:07

I do agree it's beyond a joke that he only has his daughter 3 weeks per year and he can't prioritise spending time with her for those 3 weeks by at least taking most of it off as annual leave when he gets 7 weeks per year, it's less than half!

Original poster
BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 19:09

BoohooWoohoo · 07/04/2024 18:54

You say that she had no plans with friends- does that mean she would have been bored at home too? Don’t most 15/16 year olds call an ordinary day boring because they are a very dramatic age? In my kids cases, seeing their friends is how they made their day “not boring”. Did she take some school books or hobby bits like reading books to pass the time ?

Most 15 year olds don’t have their parents or family home looking after them during the school holidays so I think it’s fine that dad went to work some days. yanbu to think that he should have made some time for her.

It’s not parental alienation to let her know that she has a choice. Tbh it sounds like she could opt for shorter periods with dad because they haven’t fallen out as such and make it clear that she expects some attention and time with him.

If she had been at home, she would have been able to meet up,with friends, but from his she would be reliant on a lift/ taxi, as he lives several miles away. Here, we have a good bus service and trains, not to mention that her friends live within walking distance.

OP posts:
beetr00 · 07/04/2024 19:28

@BillyNotQuiteNoMates not unreasonable to have hoped he'd have arranged some time for them together but if she'll be 16 by end of year she'll be able to choose her terms for contact then as you're probably aware?

How long is a Child Arrangements Order in force for?
The contact arrangements set out in a Child Arrangements Order remain legally binding until the child reaches the age of 16 unless the order specifically states otherwise. This is in accordance with section 91(10) of the Children Act 1989. After this point it will be up to the child to decide how much contact they would like to have with the parent they do not live with

Original poster
BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 19:32

beetr00 · 07/04/2024 19:28

@BillyNotQuiteNoMates not unreasonable to have hoped he'd have arranged some time for them together but if she'll be 16 by end of year she'll be able to choose her terms for contact then as you're probably aware?

How long is a Child Arrangements Order in force for?
The contact arrangements set out in a Child Arrangements Order remain legally binding until the child reaches the age of 16 unless the order specifically states otherwise. This is in accordance with section 91(10) of the Children Act 1989. After this point it will be up to the child to decide how much contact they would like to have with the parent they do not live with

Thank you. I know I’ve said it a few times, I’ve never wanted to be the one to instigate the idea that she can cut back on contact. If she suggested it herself, I’d 100% support her decision. There’s quite a long backstory, but whatever has happened has always been “my fault”, he was very good at gaslighting me and now he does it to my children, so can’t afford to put a step wrong.

OP posts:
PutOnYourRedShoesAndLetsDance · 07/04/2024 19:35

Let her decide.. my daughter decided at same age..she didn't want to go anymore.. it was only every Sunday.. he sat and read the paper.. she sat and watched TV.. at 15 ..it's not like Dad can take them to soft play or the park.. they want to hang around with their friends etc

FlippyFloppyShoe · 07/04/2024 19:48

@BillyNotQuiteNoMates Another thought that I would have is she may feel disloyal asking for less contact, I know mine certainly would and they would live in hope that he 'sees them' and their dad doesn't sound half as bad. I try to get mine to start a conversation with their dad when things aren't as they would like but it has to come from them or he would see it as me interfering. It's a difficult thing for your DD to do as she won't want to be rejected any further by him, maybe she could start a conversation before she goes next time so that he is aware of some things she would enjoy doing with him or start it in a less in your face way like 'hey next time I come for a holiday, do you think we could do X together?'

Original poster
BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 19:51

FlippyFloppyShoe · 07/04/2024 19:48

@BillyNotQuiteNoMates Another thought that I would have is she may feel disloyal asking for less contact, I know mine certainly would and they would live in hope that he 'sees them' and their dad doesn't sound half as bad. I try to get mine to start a conversation with their dad when things aren't as they would like but it has to come from them or he would see it as me interfering. It's a difficult thing for your DD to do as she won't want to be rejected any further by him, maybe she could start a conversation before she goes next time so that he is aware of some things she would enjoy doing with him or start it in a less in your face way like 'hey next time I come for a holiday, do you think we could do X together?'

Unfortunately all my kids would jump through hoops, if they felt that they’d get some attention from him.

OP posts:
WhistPie · 07/04/2024 19:55

So are all the other children subject to a court order? How old are they?

Original poster
BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 07/04/2024 19:58

WhistPie · 07/04/2024 19:55

So are all the other children subject to a court order? How old are they?

No, they’re not subject to a CAO. They are older than her.

OP posts:
WhistPie · 07/04/2024 20:08

So they think he's brilliant whilst realising he doesn't want to pay any attention to them?

xyz111 · 07/04/2024 20:21

I would say, in a nice way, that's she's at the age now where she can decide how she spends her holidays. And if she doesn't want to spend a week there, then she doesn't have to.

FlippyFloppyShoe · 07/04/2024 20:29

@BillyNotQuiteNoMates 😘 I get it, hope you can have a chat and see if it bothers her and then maybe help her form a plan to ask him to do something xxx

Gunz · 07/04/2024 20:34

My children got to this age and we left it to them to decide whether they wanted to go or not. I have three children and over time they all opted out on various weekends. Got to the point where they never went to their Dad's for holidays apart from Xmas and Easter. They are now adults and they sort out their own arrangements..

opentoadvice88 · 07/04/2024 20:46

Sounds like my childhood. I didn’t want to burden my mum by complaining but it was so DULL at my dad’s house. I didn’t even have a bedroom to hide in so just watched tv endlessly, counting down the days.

I started to basically pull sickies so I could actually live and our relationship completely fell apart when I was 18 after he forgot birthdays, big life events… even Christmas.

I guess I was boring to him at that point & he stopped making any level of effort. I haven’t seen him for 15 years and totally fine about it.

There’s no harm saying something around it being up to her if and when she goes. Empower her to make that decision.

Starlightstarbright3 · 07/04/2024 21:02

is she year 10 or 11?

If year 11 . I would take her books to revise , year 10 still probably has homework to do over the holidays .

Did she do anything with him evenings ? The weekend ? I say this my teen litterally doesn’t want to do anything with me .

EG94 · 07/04/2024 21:06

Hmm yes and no. We have for half of the holidays but obviously we don’t have enough A/L to have A/L every holiday. We WFH so some holidays we will maybe take a day or two leave and they have to suck up a day of entertaining themselves. Ex did say “you have to take leave” we said politely we don’t have enough. We are as flexible as can be but simply don’t have enough. If his kids are bored for 1 day out of 5 I’m sorry but it won’t hurt. If we worked the entire 5 days absolutely that would be wrong. Guess it’s about balance but at 15 she can choose where she is. I’d encourage her to tell her dad how she feels so it comes from her and not from you.

brocollilover · 08/04/2024 11:04

it is still so baffling that at 15 about to turn 16, you have never asked your daughter “love i’ve seen you roll your eyes a few times re going to dad’s…. you know you don’t need to always go if you don’t fancy and, likewise if you ever want to go around to dad’s outside of a scheduled visit - then let me know”

bit instead it seems to have been radio silence on this between mother and daughter for the last 8 years

WoodBurningStov · 08/04/2024 12:50

I'd sit her down and have a chat. My dd is in a similar situation during school holidays, her dad won't ferry her about to friends or her hobby so she's bored and stays in her room.

I've had a chat with her and she said she's ok to be bored and wants to go. So she does. I'd sit down with her, have a conversation and see what she says. She might be ok with being bored and still want to go. Or she might not want to go because she's bored. Either way I'd say she has a very large say on what she does, or doesn't do. It's not parent alienation as you're not refusing to let her go or trying to coerce into not having a relationship with him

I also work ft, the difference is that I wfh and can arrange to drop and pick her up from friends and her hobby.

Original poster
BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 08/04/2024 12:54

brocollilover · 08/04/2024 11:04

it is still so baffling that at 15 about to turn 16, you have never asked your daughter “love i’ve seen you roll your eyes a few times re going to dad’s…. you know you don’t need to always go if you don’t fancy and, likewise if you ever want to go around to dad’s outside of a scheduled visit - then let me know”

bit instead it seems to have been radio silence on this between mother and daughter for the last 8 years

Please go away. I have no interest in engaging with you further. Frankly, I don't care if you find it baffling or not.

OP posts: