To not want to throw in my job to live in France for a year?

[Puppalicious]

My DH is always complaining about where we live (the weather, the day to day slog) and he is desperate to move (either to the country, or to another country). He has now become absolutely adamant that he wants to move to France for a year “for an adventure”. This would involve me giving up my job, which he says I haven’t been happy in recently. I have been struggling at times recently, because of various factors, and he says I’m obsessed with it do the detriment of my family, it is stressful but ultimately it’s well-paid, senior, my boss is fine and it works ok with my kids given it’s full-time and senior (flexible, short commute, hybrid). It’s far from guaranteed I could find job similar when I come back (could be less well paid, less senior (I like working at this level) or longer and less flexible hours with demanding clients or indeed I could struggle to get a job. He says we could live off our savings but we have 3 kids to put through college, the youngest of whom has just started school and we are not young. At the same time, we only live once and it does feel a bit samey. He is putting me under pressure, but would AIBU to say no?

Keep working on it?
just tell him no, end of conversation!

Be more direct.

"DH, how exactly do you think an 11 year old child is going to be able to pursue his secondary education in a language he can neither speak nor write? He's not in preschool. Talk me through how you think this will actually work. I'm all for resilience but I think you are underestimating the enormity of what you would be expecting him, and all of us, to do, in order to facilitate YOUR dream."

Let him get the logistics together. First he needs to start an intensive French course to get to the minimum of the B1 European framework level. Without that all communication other than the supermarket will be too difficult. It’ll be costly but necessary and hard work. At the same time he needs to register with schools and find French classes asap where you are now for the kids. That’s for starters … admin for health insurance and housing. He’ll need a job in France. Let him sort it all out. Once he’s organised everything then it’ll be ok. I doubt he’ll do anything tbh.

Or this.

"Since you're not willing to be adult about this, I am going to have to do the adulting for both of us. Uprooting our children to take them to France for a year with no plan for how we are going to support ourselves, where we will live or how the children will keep up with their education is insane. You need to get over this idea because the answer is no. Your last chance to do this is not now. Your last chance was about a decade ago. Time to move on."

It sounds like a terrible plan. It also sounds like you are struggling a bit, so I think you should try and take some time out to come up with a better plan. If you stay as is, how can you cope better? Clearly not by your dh taking on more planning and responsibility as he sounds totally incapable at this.

Does it have to be France? Is your DH working in the building trade? If so he could easily pick up work through agencies. Netherlands, Belgium and Germany I know are all looking for people from all backgrounds with experience, I don't know anything about France unfortunately. International schools are expensive but depending on your salaries could be very affordable.

Admittedly it was only for a day,decades ago - but my experience of French schoolchildren was that they are brutal!

Not sure the UK school system is that terrific either at the moment - huge amounts of stress for the staff from what Ive heard at any rate.

I think your dh needs to getti the bottom of what's missing in his life. This crackers plan is unlikely to be the only solution and may not even work anyway.

Does he do any challenging sport? Perhaps he should try sailing or surfing orrock climbing or something - something that will take him right out of himself and into the moment.

This is a hare-brained idea and that's putting it politely!

Your husband sounds very impulsive and lacking in common sense - never a good combo.

The way I see it you have a few options here:
Stay married and let him go alone
Divorce and let him go alone!
Spell it out very clearly why this is a complete non starter (maybe write him a letter as it doesn't sound like he's mature enough to have a conversation)

Some kids are resilient. Some are very sensitive. Actually, a member of my family moved to France at exactly age 11 and developed an eating disorder they've never really recovered from. And that was going to a good international school.

Either way, I don't think the fact that some children are resilient is an argument to disrupt their lives and their education without good reason.

Maybe he needs to show some resilience... about the fact that his plan is stupid.

I think that we all have the odd moment that life could be better if we changed jobs, lost weight, won the lotto, could travel or lived abroad. As you get older you can change or do certain things but the reality is that you have to look at the plus and minus of what your planning.

The reality is that his plans won't work for you or your children and its not fair to disrupt every one's lives to suit what he wants. It one thing giving up a job in your 20's when your single to go travelling but when your married with 3 children you have to consider how it will effect you and your family long term.
Your the main earner and have some flexibility with your job and with 3 children that worth a lot. He is self employed in a physical job and you said that he may not be able to do this job past a certain age. You have 3 children and your youngest has just started school. You said as well that you had your last child late and your husband will be retired before the last child goes to college. The reality is that you need to keep and build up your savings for down the line as a family. I would also ensure that you both have life insurance and in your case have income protection insurance as well that would pay your salary if you were unable to work for a period.

You need to tell him that his plans don't work for you or your kids. Nor are your putting your family long term financial future at risk either.
I know it not easy for anyone at the moment but the reality is when your married with kids they have to be considered. Could you get time off during the summer and go abroad for a few weeks to France and stay in an air BnB ect?
I think as well that he needs to be reminded that he married with 3 kids and as parents you have to do what's best for your kids now and in the future. Perhaps you could make plans that when the child are older and less dependant that you can travel then.

Keep working on it?
just tell him no, end of conversation!

This. Just tell him NO.

Could there be a compromise, negotiate with work to get 6 weeks off / wfh for the summer holidays and all decamp to the south of France for the duration. You get to keep your job, kids don't miss school and you get a fun family experience that's more than a normal holiday. If you enjoy that then start working on repeating next summer.

I wouldn't compromise a comfortable future for this mad cap plan either.
Do two spreadsheets.
Financial reality if we stay.
Financial reality if we go.

I'm presuming you're irish. Could you take unpaid leave? I could take a career break in civil service although there would be repercussions to my state contrib and single scheme pension!

Echoing what's been said though, don't jeopardise your future comfort because he has ants in his pants

Just for info, your eldest two wouldn't be accepted directly by the nearest French state school anyway, at least in Paris (and I imagine in most cities) they'd be sent initially to a separate school/section for new arrivals to learn the language. My children did not do this because they spoke French but even so the move from a UK state primary to a Paris one at 6 and 8 was a huge challenge, especially for my 8 year old who went into Year 5 equivalent (from year 3, due to differences in the way they allocate to years) with a very old fashioned and demanding teacher. French schools and attitudes to school/education are very different -- better in some ways, worse in others but very different. If you could afford proper international school that's a different matter but they probably wouldn't learn much French in just a year and it'd still be a huge upheaval for them. Most intl schools would follow something more like the US (rather than UK) curriculum in the Anglophone section. France is actually much better for families than the UK ime (not sure about Ireland). But without one or both of you having really good French the whole thing would be very difficult, and a lot of the advantages relate to quite young children, while you're practically past that stage already. Somewhere like the Netherlands or Scandinavia where many more people have good English might be practically easier.

I think you need to find a way to address your husband's unhappiness (and maybe also your own in a smaller way?) seriously, but to separate it from this slightly crazy scheme.

But as I said if you want more practical info on what is actually involved in moving primary age children to France, do feel free to contact me.

It doesn't sound like he would be able to organise it and make it happen without your help. Just say nice idea. It you're not using the savings. Find a way to finance it and bring me a plan of how it's all going t work/ where whe kids are going to school/ where we are living/ how we are paying for it all etc etc and then refused to help. Worst case he is forced to confront the practicalities. Best case he finds a way to make it work that you're happy with.

Tell him the children get a vote too.

I’ve said that to him before, I’ve said show me a plan and I’ll consider it but he just says, oh well you don’t want to, so what’s the point of showing you a plan.

As the saying goes, no matter how far you try and run away from your troubles, there you are...
It sounds like he has a fantasy in his head, but knows you will say no, so it can safely be a fantasy and he can blame you for not wanting to go. He doesn't want the reality of trying to find work get the kids into school and then back into school in Ireland a year later, to try to live on a reduced income etc etc. If he did, he'd do all the planning and put it to you.

So he's lazy too then! Clearly he expects you to facilitate this stupid idea and he's not prepared to put in any effort.

I would tell him that if he can't even be bothered to put together a plan then he can't be that serious. Maybe he knows full well that it's a stupid idea and is trying to turn it around and blame you as the one who's ruining his plans, rather than just admitting it's a stupid plan!

I’ve said show me a plan and I’ll consider it but he just says, oh well you don’t want to, so what’s the point of showing you a plan.

Well there you are then. That's the end of the conversation! He knows you don't want to go and he knows your reasons. Tell him to just stop mentioning it now.

He just wants you to be the bad guy, that's crap. Poor me I'm so open minded and up for adventure, you are so boring , blah blah blah . Well don't play into it. Keep saying that you don't think it's a good idea particularly for 11 years old schooling , but if he works it all out and brings a plan you'll look at it and discuss with the kids (he won't) keep repeating this and that you haven't got time or inclination to do the research . Don't let him put this back on you.

yeh, he wants you to ORGANISE his fantasy which will leave you both worse off and disrupt your kids' educations.

I'd tell him to va t'en, seul

EU passport holders don’t have an automatic right to stay beyond the three month point, though how often the (vague) rules are enforced is another matter.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2651/personnalisation/resultat?lang=en&quest0=0&quest1=0&quest=

I’d caution any idea that the OPs partner may have that they can perhaps pick up casual work fairly easily - it’s France, the labour market is pretty tightly controlled/regulated (certainly compared with the UK)….

It is an utterly hare brained scheme. Plus totally thoughtless about how it will impact DCs. With no right to permanently live there you will be incredibly vulnerable: health care, housing, education.

We have moved abroad with DCs (then aged 1, 3 and 6) but this was a corporate move, a big promotion for me. We had a lot of assistance from my company but there were still problems. We couldnt buy a car without residency permits. Banking was totally different. Shopping was different. Basically everything we knew about being grownups was different.

I work in (an EU country) government in this domain, so I know from daily professional experience, but if you want to know more about it, look up the legislation "Directive 2004/38/EC" .

If you want a source explaining the same to the general public, there's https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/european-government/european-union/freedom-of-movement-in-the-eu/#794dec or https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-movement-of-persons or any number of sources.

It's obvious, as otherwise people could just move to the wealthier parts of Europe and claim unemployment benefits wherever they are more generous. That was never the intention of freedom of movement.

By the way, under the same type of logic, short term Schengen visa for the EU are all the same, but long-term visa are national and country specific.