To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

[PenguinLord]

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

It’s Newbutoldfather’s way of saying that mixed race people are not truly black, or consider themselves as such.

You’re directing your outrage at the wrong party here. It’s the party doing the judging you should be trying to change, not the poor sods who can’t do anything about it.

Very sorry and all that if being white gives me an advantage in a job interview, but if you want change at a societal level, you need to try and change the attitude of the interview panel, not the other candidates. What are they supposed to do about it?

It’s a bit like being a climate change protester and ignoring China. Utterly futile and stupid.

I think that’s just you taking the existence of white privilege as a personal attack.

Well, I’m not going to feel guilty about it if that’s what you mean. Why should I? I’m not the oppressor.

Was somebody asking you to feel guilty about it?

I think the focus should be on preventing racism across the board. To my mind 'white privilege' is a means to distribute racism across a population rather than focus on those are causing the privelege in the first place......racists.

So the equally qualified black person doesn't get the job....that's due to a bias of the interview panel or the presence of some racist attitudes...it's not the result of some vaguely described privilege white people carry around.

If white people avoid abuse and discrimination that is due to racists having other targets....it's the racist you should worry about and not a population as a whole.

White privilege seems to be something the whole of the white population should at one for and seems to be a characteristic that should be removed in that there is a general struggle against white 'privileged' people when the struggle should be against individual racists within that populatiion.

The concept of white privilege pits one ethnicity against another.

It doesn’t pit anyone against anything.

it’s just white people who have knee jerk reactions and getting defensive about a system that’s set up and designed to benefit them.

racism is structural. It’s not just about people being racist in their day to day lives.

I just don’t agree with that analysis at all.

”White privilege” refers to the relative advantages that a white person has, compared to to people from other races, in certain societies.

Just sticking with the interview example; if black candidates are often passed over in favour of white candidates, due to conscious and/or unconscious biases of interviewers, then that’s an example of white privilege. It doesn’t mean that the successful white candidates have done anything wrong, but that they enjoy and may have benefited from the advantage of being less likely to be treated unfairly in the interview process.

That doesn’t make every white person accountable for racism, or import guilt onto them, it just describes one of the ways in which society treats white people (as a class) more favourably than people from some other races.

Given that most interviewers, even with conscious biases, aren’t going to tell the unsuccessful candidate “I didn’t hire you because you are black and I’m racist”, you’re never likely to know the extent to which racism has played a part in any given interview, even if overall trends are clear that there is a problem. I don’t see how you can tackle these insidious things without being able to acknowledge that they exist, which is what the term “white privilege” is designed to do.

I feel as though most people who are affronted by mention of “white privilege” are objecting to the term itself, and the connotations they take from it, rather than what it actually means.

Sorry, what? Doesn’t ‘import guilt’? Why exclude white people from the theatre then?

Please demonstrate where white people have been excluded from the theatre

I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick.

I think that “themed” or special interest spaces are important. As a child free woman i wouldn’t dream of trying to impose myself on a gathering of mothers, I don’t want to be a member of the Garrick Club which is all male. I wouldn’t insist on joining a special meeting for Jewish people. I respect the need for those spaces.

We may not be enslavers but we perpetuate its legacy if we persist in a wilful ignorance of why such spaces are still necessary.

@AzureNewt

A bit of an aside but I don't know if your a pop can but has the singer Due Lips benefited from white privilege in terms of not having barriers to becoming a very successful artist?

https://www.google.com/search?q=dua+lipa&oq=dua+lipa&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDAgAEEUYOxixAxiABDIMCAAQRRg7GLEDGIAEMgwIARAAGEMYgAQYigUyDAgCEAAYQxiABBiKBTIPCAMQABhDGLEDGIAEGIoFMgwIBBAAGEMYgAQYigUyDAgFEAAYQxiABBiKBTIPCAYQABhDGLEDGIAEGIoFMgwIBxAAGEMYgAQYigXSAQgyMzQzajBqNKgCALACAA&sourceid=silk&ie=UTF-8#vhid=F9aLfeFWYXcdiM&vssid=l

Although I would say from a purely physical point of her view her skin is white but her Kosovan Alabanian heritage, her name and her parent"a immigration status you may argue could put her into the non white category as far as 'white privelge' theory goes. Racism and bias as well as self perception as being white is a complex subject that can't be wrapped up into an overly simplistic divisive theory such as 'white privilege'.

Coming from Eastern Europe or being a hijab wearing Mulsim with pale i.e. white skin to maybe my uneducated means having a lot less 'white privilege' than a publically schooled white person that is the product multiple generations of UK wealthy white people.

In fact white or pale skinned Arabic women possibly show a flow in the white privilege argument in that it could show country of origin, culture, and immigration status absolutely swamp out the notion of skin colour bringing privilege.

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=2f800a701f0b426f&sca_upv=1&q=pale+arabic+women&uds=AMwkrPt8eR8Q1gfQGx0g1guoVKhMSRDz_V4JgdzMj1Mal7P54k24-rAiYC-GAirQHQYTzd7qHwzJH9fckdEGimBwEkRPva5h-ypU8f6s5eN_RhRjqjCR2CnRtF2xGq0Da319YfBhT7ev3De6p3se6xAJ-5EDPRsiiffV-QcvmXKGQIDBexSJhyzlOeHuuiPzByq08vIAyfdjmW8s2KZTG6m6t8GMAxRfDxdYKKi3epGDGnCxqDPaTM72JMwAVvvEfhW-hAieMvJBjLnwZsZM2NL_qjRGefaLuq_Vf6xRTnnyPZKWy3izMGmee1QxNHA_baaEJg9Atv1X&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjihMern7SFAxU3S0EAHXrUAYgQtKgLegQICRAB&biw=800&bih=1280&dpr=1.5#vhid=QJTCuxYOpScwBM&vssid=mosaic

At the end of the day it’s about wealth. Wealthy people no matter their skin colour are more privileged than others. And vice versa.

You have examples of 'white Palestinians and I presume some of these living in the West bank and Gaza may be a little bemused by this rather territory specific notion of white privlege. The concept of white privilege in some regions of the world is so simplistic it is borderline offensive and it denies manifest discrimination on differences resulting from things other than skin colour.

White Palesrinians would come under the non white category under critical race theory as they are an oppressed people showing that 'white privilege' is an extremely simplistic race sensitive term that could hinder more than help discussion about discrimination in societies .

Instead of 'white' if you really wish to try and associate privilege of would be much more instructive to use more explicit descriptions such as 'product of being a descendent of White western Europeans that have multiple generations fronthe same country privilege'. Once you more realistically define privilege you see it is more complex than an extremely limiting vision of 'white privilege'.

It just sounds like segregation to me.

Replace it with 'white out' and see if you feel the same.

It's like having a WW2 movie set in Europe having a white only evening as the majority of combatants and civilians effected were white. That's not going to go down well.

Threads like this just prove the point that in the current political climate, certain sections of society feel is is legally and socially acceptable to hurl abuse and attempt to pile on hate towards white people with impunity with the confidence their is no reply or retort for fear of reprisals, Its the bloody great elephant in the room every one ignores.

As for claiming to know how easy I have had it as a white woman, unless your a white woman who walked in my shoes you don't speak for me. Especially one who grew up in a predominantly ethnic area in Burnley where people like me were spat on and abused on a daily basis, by other sections of society for being white.

This example is so boring I can’t even be bothered to try and explain it to you

@valensiwalensi

I may be getting this wrong but are you suggesting the experience of white people during world war 2 was 'boring'. I was only suggesting that people may have an issue of suggesting inviting white people (of maybe an elderly age) to watch a play about the battle of Britain would be offensive. However the white people may be sharing an experience of be particularly emotionally involved in the topic because of heritage.

@Iluvteandbiscuits .

It's not exactly white privilege is it. I think we ignore discrimination and abuse towards white people as it is rarer but it definitely exists. (Or should I say those that perceive them selves as white as mentioned before 'white' is complex term).

Perhaps racial division and the notion of 'white' people being oppressors excuses people from being offensive? I do feel terms like 'white privlige' leads to people seeing white people to become the victims of cultural and historical vengeance.

Maybe someone can explain what a white person is? How do you define white?

I reckon if one feels white, one is white. If one feels like a woman, one is a woman. Etcetera.

I’m feeling like a billionaire today. Must tell the bank.

Yes you are getting it wrong.

There are better ways to be more inclusive.

Often cost is an issue. I'd love to go to the theatre more often but I can't afford it.

Selling tickets at a discount in places you want your target audience from with travel included would be a better way to get more people interested. And include a drink / food at the interval.

That target group could be a geographical area, via a school, or linked to community hubs eg Food banks / community centres / social clubs.