To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

[PenguinLord]

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

I think the poster was suggesting the audience would be like-minded because they felt a need to attend a black out performance. Because they feel the effects of racism and need an outlet to express themselves freely amongst people who understand.

I didn’t interpret the post as suggesting all black people are of one mind.

StormingNorman

I understand the term as you and others put it forward.
I have no need to educate myself on it saying that I don't just means that you have no real response to my post. and undermines your own response.

But my point remains valid. Not all white people are as privileged as others. To use the term in that way is divisive.

Some white people are more privileged than others in many ways, but all people who look white share a white privilege.

Whilst I somewhat agree, you have now changed the parameters of the term.

I really haven’t. White privilege is and always has been the privilege of being or even just looking white.

This post would clearly suggest that you don't really understand the term.

If you did, you would not feel the need to make the point that "not all white people are as privileged as others" because you would recognise that this is beside the point.

You have not. I just don’t see what some people don’t understand. It’s almost wilful.

There are so many ‘privileges’ eg health privilege, male privilege, wealth privilege, and other like sexuality, age etc. We are discussing one privilege here which is about race. Yet others are desperate to bring all the other ones into it rather than discuss white privilege. Of course you can have white people who are poorer than black people. That doesn’t mean white privilege isn’t still a thing.

Right. Next step...

If [insert colour of your choice] employers and/or employees feel it's important to have [insert colour of your choice]-only workplaces then I don't feel it's my place to argue.

Etc.

Very wise words, @Medschoolmum - I agree completely.

Sorry, can you elaborate on why you think think this comment is relevant?

You appear to be struggling to tell the difference between the perfectly legal, temporary creation of a safe space (for 2 nights out of 80) in which predominately black audiences can have a shared experience of watching a play about a historic evil that may be extremely triggering for some of them, and the introduction of a segregated workplace that discriminates illegally on the grounds of race.

Could you explain your thinking behind this in a bit more detail, please, and cast some light on why you believe that the comparison is valid? Because I'm not quite getting the logic.

If you wanted a more valid workplace comparison, surely it would be more along the lines of creating a dedicated discussion group for people from historically disadvantaged groups to discuss the issues that affect them in a safe environment? Which many employers do?

I'm not struggling to understand anything. Perhaps you struggle to understand that others who (like you, I assume) would prefer to see discrimination eliminated might have different ideas about how best to aim for that position.

As a former discrimination lawyer I'm not in favour of people being excluded from normal activities on the basis of their sex, race, age etc. We're still struggling to curtail the damage that overt discrimination on the grounds of sex, race, age, disability etc has done for hundreds of years, and continues to do albeit usually less overtly now. I simply don't think it's a good idea to start introducing 'reverse' discrimination (i.e. discrimination by groups who have historically been victims against groups who have historically been perpetrators) and attempting to justify it.

Interesting that as a former lawyer you didn’t notice that there is absolutely no exclusion here..

You're a discrimination lawyer and yet you fail to see that there isn't any discrimination in this scenario?!
You'd think you'd understand more than most and recognise that they would maybe appreciate being able to gather over shared experiences/ racism/slavery.

So can you elaborate on exactly what you think is discriminatory in this specific scenario?

I've no intention of being dragged into an argument. I've stated my view. It's not difficult to understand. Clearly you disagree, and so be it.

Very wise. Not much point in being dragged into an argument when you can see that you are going to lose.

It would seem to be a good thing that you are a former discrimination lawyer, rather than one who is currently practising. Good decision.

Right. Next step...

If [insert colour of your choice] employers and/or employees feel it's important to have [insert colour of your choice]-only workplaces then I don't feel it's my place to argue.

///

Fucks sake

THIS IS NOT AT ALL WHAT IS HAPPENING

Are some people just on the wind up?!

NOBODY IS BEING EXCLUDED.

YOU ARE FREE TO GO ON ANY EVENING.

ITS A SUGGESTION THAT A VERY SMALL PROPORTION OF EVENINGS WOUID WORK WELL AS A EVENING FOR A BLACK AUDIENCE.

As no one has been able to explain how this small ask disadvantages of a white folk I'm going to guess it's a good chance that some people can't bear black people having this for themselves and aren't worthy of a few hours to absorb and reflect a demonstration of their history without white people gawping on.

@tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz ,

This idea that no one is excluded is just disingenuous (and an attempt to get around discrimination laws). If, genuinely, the intention wasn’t to exclude non blacks, it wouldn’t be a black out night, it would be a normal night.

The idea is to exclude whites (although, bizarrely, not ‘trans’ blacks) without breaking the law.

It really isn't.

If you can go at any other time then why are 3 out of 80 nights during which it's a specific audience, bother you?

It is an invitation to people who do not have black heritage to respect the fact that some black people might appreciate the opportunity to watch this play about a highly emotive subject alongside other people who share aspects of that heritage.

People can, of course, choose not to respect that wish. They will not be prevented from entering the theatre if they have purchased a ticket. There is no exclusion or illegal discrimination.

I think the only people who would be unwilling to respect that polite invitation almost certainly have another agenda to push!

Unironically would be descendants of slave traders in the audience but because they’d be black, nobody would make a point of it

The quote that you used suggested that to feel oppressed in this context, was less empowering. You then went on to say that your experience of discrimination in Zimbabwe, “ a population that is truly oppressed”. Both statements suggest that you think there is a type of oppression that is “true” and by virtue, one that isn’t? The point I was making is that there is not a universal feeling of oppression, what may feel oppressive to one, may not to another. It doesn’t make either less valid.

To answer some of your questions; someone may feel that watching a film about graphic details of slavery is highly emotive, traumatic, upsetting, anger inducing and even embarrassing. Not only from the historical perspective but also, when looking at your current lived experiences and similarities that may have created in you, similar feelings to the ones expressed on screen. Any internal or external emotion you may feel as a result, may be less comfortably expressed when sitting in a room of people who are dismissive of those feelings, think you are being silly or in fact, think what is happening is, “not that bad”. Being in a room of people who ‘get it’ on some level, may be more comforting and may make you feel more relaxed to express those emotions without worry and shame. I agree, non black people should also face the horrors of these historical events and it is important for us all to be open and have these discussions. This event does not stop that happening though, there is still plenty of opportunity for non black people to attend, engage and discuss. Black out nights are only an offer and not compulsory. Because of this fact, I don’t think it does add to divisive society, it is 1/2 nights out of many others for those who wish to, to have a different experience of the play. I suspect lots will not need it but if you do, it’s a sort of option. How many racist white people would go to watch this show? I suspect not a lot but what this thread has shown is that there are quite a high number who would dismiss and ridicule those who found it difficult. That too would be very uncomfortable to experience.

I do agree with you completely though about the use of “safe spaces” can throw up a whole host of issues. In my mind, that is only relevant if it infringes on someone else’s right to access said space. In this case, it affects no one but those who would want to attend a Black Out night, even if for any reason a non black personal wanted to attend on those dates, they still could.

I actually didn’t ask if you would attend a Jewish event in this context, from what you have said so far I didn’t think you would. I asked if you would have the same lack of understanding if a Jewish friend or family member wanted to attend such an event? Whether or not you personally would go, would you better understand why someone else may want to go?

You have no idea what the ‘occasional’ experiences of wealthy black people are. As you said, you don’t know many. I do and I can tell you that the discrimination is far more than occasional. If every experience of discrimination was dealt with by instructing a lawyer, we would never have the time to accumulate the wealth in the first place! Nevertheless, there is not one experience of blackness and not every experience is the same. Which is exactly my point, for some an opportunity to not have to justify, quantify or measure your response to black oppression, may be useful.

You seem to struggle with the idea that things are happening in the world that don’t affect you and you have no experience of.

Wtf is trans black