To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

[PenguinLord]

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

This.

I once visited one of the "places of no return" in West Africa, where the slaves would leave Africa for the last time on ships headed for the US plantations. Horrendous, evil place. DH and I are white and happened to be there at the same time as a black family, who were all visibly distressed, one woman crying uncontrollably. We could sense that our presence there was making their experience all the more uncomfortable, so we left quickly. For us, it was a place of historical interest and to get a sense of the evil nature of humanity and actions we hope are never repeated. For them, it appeared to be traumatic family history and was deeply personal. We understood that as white people with no shared history in these horrors, we had no place in trying to take that moment from them.

It's no different for SOME black people with this play. Obviously there will be plenty of black people who won't feel that way, and they can go to the usual shows that are for everyone. But for anyone who would find this scheme helpful, why would white people, who still benefit from the history of slavery to this day (it's ignorant in the extreme to claim this isn't true), why on earth would you begrudge those people this small gesture?

No.

Just because you personally haven’t experienced something, it doesn’t make it not true.

You seem very interested in your own personal experiences with an inability to consider things from another person’s perspective, which may be very different to yours?

As I asked earlier, do you think that a Jewish person who has or would like to attend a Jewish led event about Jewish history, is wrong to do so and if so why?

Discussion is one thing, but the blatant minimising and dismissing of some people’s black experiences is exactly, such an event is necessary in the UK in 2024!

There is lots of research around generational trauma and child development, it’s interesting you should really look it up. As with all research, it’s open to questions though.

If you think that wealthy black people in the UK do not experience discrimination, I can only assume you don’t know a lot of wealthy black people. Or that, they don’t feel able to talk openly with you about this.

Jeez this comment has to win!

I know a lady who was beaten up by her husband, whilst it was sad at the time, she actually is now an award winning body builder and can recognise that taking those hits made her stronger. She hates when women go on about misogyny and male violence because sometimes, history shapes our destiny.

I think many of you would greatly benefit from reading this essay by Africa Brooke:

www.aei.org/carpe-diem/why-im-leaving-the-cult-of-wokeness/

“What I’m truly afraid of is existing in a world that forces me to submit to an ideology without question, otherwise I’m to be shamed (or pressured to shame myself) and cast out of the community.
A world that tells me that because I inhabit a black body; I will forever be oppressed and at the mercy of some omnipresent monster called “whiteness.” That because of the color of my skin; I am a victim of an inherently racist system by default – and me rejecting the narrative of oppression means that I am in fact, in denial. How empowering!

As someone who comes from Zimbabwe, a country where the general population is truly oppressed, it perplexes me that oppression is now being worn as an identity piece in most parts of the West, especially by those who claim to be “progressive.”

What I’m truly afraid of is existing in a world that forces me to consider the color of my skin and my gender (and that of others) at every f*ing turn, instead of living by Martin Luther King’s teachings and prioritizing the content of mine and other people’s character.

I dread the prospect of a world where context, nuance, critical thinking, meritocracy, mathematics, science, and rationality are considered tools of “white supremacy,” and the rule is that you’re not allowed to question or argue this senseless statement – especially if you’re white. A world that is conditioning you and I to believe that we will always be trapped in some weird hierarchy because of our race, our genitals, our physical abilities, our neurodiversity, our sexuality, and our politics.

And that if we do not agree on every single thing, it’s a sign that we are interacting with an enemy – or at the very least, someone to be wildly suspicious and judgmental of…instead of another complex human being worthy of being seen and heard. I wish this world I’m speaking of was just a figment of my imagination, but we are already inside it. Our suitcases have been unpacked here for quite some time.

This absolutist, authoritarian world is being fiercely crafted under the guise of “social justice,” and I want no parts in this. I AM OUT.”

It is truly remarkable how many racists have black friends and family members.

It’s nothing to do with racism or getting black people to attend the theatre; it’s about publicity.
Say something mildly controversial; you get free advertising in the newspapers and people who have never heard of this play will buy tickets.
Surely it’s one of the oldest tricks in the book?

I agree with this to some extent however, shouldn’t those you do feel oppressed by there blackness have that recognised and understood. I don’t see how we can truly move past discrimination and oppression if we are not allowed to say what the experience of that is?

Being forced to consider the colour of your skin I suspect, is not something that anyone would want to deal with but rather, for some a reality of life. I may not want to have to consider how racist a country is before booking a holiday and some may not consider this at all. Regardless of what reality you choose to exist in, the fact of the matter will confront you when you get there.

I personally may not have experienced a lot of racism and oppression, that doesn’t change the fact that many others have. To say otherwise is just to ‘victim blame’ and further oppress surely?

So to the point of the thread, some black people would feel comforted by being in a black only space when considering issues of black trauma, others may not. Who gets to decide, in this world, who is right? Not needing this space personally, doesn’t affect anyone else. These type of events have happened before in other contexts and no one was harmed by this. It’s not about a perpetual ‘victim hood’ but rather, recognition that some people do consider themselves to be victims. As has been said, not every black experience is the same.

You make some good points - but no one is saying people can’t express their feelings of oppression, so I’m not sure where that comes from. Also, ‘feeling oppressed‘ and genuine oppression might not be the same thing.

For example, the term ‘safe space’ is used constantly now to justify any and all ‘feelings’. That now means that the actual safe spaces that are so desperately needed are lost in the noise of it all.

Why do we genuinely need to make a black out night? Why would a black skinned person genuinely not be able to watch a show if there are white people in the audience? How does it actually help them to remove white people? Doesn’t it just add to the perceived tensions - rather than trying to come together and integrate better? I mean, how many racist Whits people are going to go and watch this show in the first place?!

The abuses that took place during the time of black slavery are obviously, utterly abhorrent, like all historical atrocities.

There are multiple whataboutary examples one could ask / suggest, if that’s besides the point.

But separating an audience into different colours this way isn’t going to change anything and certainly isn’t progressive (it’s a bloody clever marketing ploy though, pulling the social justice card and providing a shed load of publicity to the show though), it’s regressive and IMHO it’s encouraging further separation and victimhood.

@LessonsinChemistryandLove ,

You ask me whether I would want to attend a ‘Jewish led’ event, and I would, but I would have no desire to attend an event marketed as ‘for Jews or people who identify as Jewish’.

I am not a hypocrite, I don’t like artificial segregation.

As for wealthy black people experiencing discrimination, I am sure it does happen occasionally but I suspect it is rare and they have good lawyers more than able to deal with it,.

I have not known many wealthy black people well, but I have taught a couple of the daughters of ultra high net worth black people. Let me assure you they did not seem put upon as they reduced some of the younger teachers to tears with their demands to get their daughter a 9 (I am thinking of one family in particular here). Their wealth privilege was definitely on display as they cowed the (relatively) poor mostly white teachers.

As I said, I know white privilege is real, but wealth privilege trumps it every time.

Yep, and it's worked a treat.

If you are white you are able to go to any night you like. You are not being excluded or segregated.

It's been suggested that a few evenings (3 out of 80?) be kept if possible to allow a black only audience to experience the event together (and, to address a poster a few days back who compared this to "Jew only showings of Schindlers List , a play is a vastly different experience to a film. The dynamics between performer and audience for a start) as it's subject matter which still has repercussions today. This could make for some emotive moments and times when reflection can be deeper if you are with like minded people.

This is such a small ask. Why are so many posters angry about it? How does it disadvantage with a white people to choose another night to go?

Maybe one of the many Angry Posters will make a point of attending one of these performances actually. It would be interesting to hear what their experience was like and how much value their presence added for the other audience members.

You're assuming that people are 'like-minded' because they have the same colour skin. Massive own goal.

It's a fair assumption that like minded people will be attending this for the same reasons. They didn't say all people with the same skin colour think the same way at all.

So there was no 'own goal'.

Not convinced

Yes. I often think perhaps something like ‘white advantage’ would be better. Despite all the education about the real meaning of white privilege, some people still think it’s about white people living in posh houses with kids at private school. This then leads them to froth with outrage.

What an unintelligent comment. Cringeing for you.

Jesus your reaching ... I've not made an assumption

Let's say it's a performance where the audience are predominantly black. Because the writers have suggested as the theme is one which they feel closer to than say, me, as a white person. Therefore they will in this instance be like minded. And probably not white.

But I applaud your knit picking.

Care to add what your answer to my question is - what are white people missing out on or how are the being disadvantaged by choosing another evening? Who knows, maybe a matinee performance on the same day.

Of course they can still disregard this tiny request and go anyway.

Nit picking even. Or is it knit picking?!

Then of course there's also the inconvenient truth about who's ancestors actually sold slaves to the white people in the first place. It wasn't all enforcement, pillage and abduction. Nobody wants to talk about that though because racism bigotry etc....

I think that gives them carte blanche to be even more racist. They feel emboldened.

For many people slavery still has repercussions today as well. It still drives a lot of current resentment. Not everyone has moved on.

That poster has form. ‘Interesting’ contributions on a previous golly thread. And a teacher too😐