To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

[PenguinLord]

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

No. Its not weird that I don't choose to summarise an entire socio political concept, with data, here, for you. You have the Internet and access to libraries. Read a book.

Lots of people have pointed out the (wilful?) failure to understand what white privilege actually is, so I'll not bother to repeat them. I suspect you'd be closed to hearing it anyway.

I don't have the view you seem to have decided I have. I'm not on a quest to reduce all experiences of disadvantage to race. I've literally stated this, numerous times.

I understand class privilege also. In fact, recognising and addressing it is a significant part of my professional work. I also understand how race and class intersect (there's that word again!) and produce nuance.

I'm sorry your ancestors were persecuted so horribly. Its not a zero sum game though. Recognising different privileges and forms of discrimination doesn't take away your experience. Maybe be an ally to other people who've experienced persecution and discrimination, albeit for for different reasons, and stand in solidarity with them? Rather than use your energy to be so annoyed that white privilege doesn't centre your own experience? That would be powerful.

Okay, fine re the point about white people being slaves. But racism is still happening to black people and other races. You often hear about the police targeting black people or people attacking Muslims or Jewish people- how often do you hear about people attacking people because they’re white? Yes, white people have been slaves and that’s awful but they’re not being targeted now, other races most certainly are. So if black people think this is a good idea then I’m all for it.

@valensiwalensi ,

Respectfully, if you want to challenge an argument, use facts and logic rather than calling me ‘offensive’. Otherwise it is like a conversation with a not particularly bright 10 year old.

Black people aren’t here to do your legwork for you.
But I will spell it out for you - trying to say that a black person with wealth is an exempt from both generational trauma or everyday discrimination is offensive.

Same. Though the main thing that keeps me away from theatre is eye watering prices.

@valensiwalensi ,

‘Black people aren’t here to do your legwork for you.’

It is hard to have a proper discussion with someone so sure of themselves, and this is a discussion forum.

I do plenty of my own legwork, thanks, and most of it shows that, according to evidence and facts, you are wrong.

‘But I will spell it out for you - trying to say that a black person with wealth is an exempt from both generational trauma or everyday discrimination is offensive.’

Generational trauma is epigenetics and is quite controversial. It is hard going from a study from mice (sweet smell and shocking them when they eat) to inferring that humans suffer from events generations later. Even in the mice study, the third generation was sensitised but not traumatised by the sweet smell, more curious,

Most wealthy blacks just aren’t subject to everyday discrimination. I am not saying it never happens, but it is rare. The way they dress and their accent gives them acceptance.

I'm sorry your ancestors were persecuted so horribly. Its not a zero sum game though. Recognising different privileges and forms of discrimination doesn't take away your experience.

You’re missing the point, it’s not my experience.

I’m not oppressed today because something happened to my family 80 years ago.

And no need to be patronising, I’ve read ‘a book’.

I have a colleague and good friend who is black Jamaican, a school teacher who arrived here in the late 60's and was the first black person in town.

When we were chatting recently he told me of his experience, of being a bit of an oddity and as he put it "local attraction" through acceptance and eventually huge respect in the community.

He is horrified by black this, black that, he says he doesn't want to be defined by the colour of his skin, but by who HE is - and he feels a "new tribalisation" risks undoing the integration that was so hard won.

As to the slave trade, he's a proud Jamaican (and teacher of history) and points out to his students that had it not been for the slave traders (many who were indeed black africans rounding up other tribes to sell on) then his family would never have ended up in Jamaica, history shapes our destiny - even the bad bits.

Perhaps this is why several white middle class people have been found out trying to ‘pass’ as black or otherwise non-white (Rachel Dolezal) but never the opposite?

Or could this be that in their eyes not being white was somehow beneficial?

@valensiwalensi I'd rather be myself (not white British) and that's the message we should be sending to every child and young person in the world. Your question is simplistic and unhelpful.

So you can’t answer the question.

Personally, I don’t think allowing or denying people access to anything based solely on their race is a good idea. I’m also not a fan of positive discrimination.

However, I am white and recognise that my views on this are neither that important or that strong so I’m not going to get worked up about it at all.

@valensiwalensi what are you trying to achieve by pushing for an answer to such a ridiculous question?

Still waiting for your answer…. It’s not difficult

This.

Not remotely comparable to segregation.
Segregation was forced by white people so we didn't "mix", black people wanting to watch a film about slavery by themselves is people who want to watch it with people who share the same experiences as them.
Your argument is the same as men going "you've got equality, you're allowed out of the house more now, we let you into pubs etc, I'm not responsible for sexism/ oppression... !

‘If black performers and/or theatre-goers feel that it's important to have Black Out nights in a play about slavery, then I don't think it's my place as a white person to question that.’

I am afraid I would disagree, I find this idea very divisive. In a democratic society everyone should be allowed to question what they want. It is the old rationalism vs empiricism debate.

’Lived experience’ doesn’t trump research and data, although both the former may also include asking people about their lived experience. Are we going to only talk to women about abortion, men about prostate cancer etc. If you think that is good, how about just allowing Jews to discuss religious circumcism? Bit harder now?

We live in a democratic multicultural society where every decision influences and has an effect on others’ rights. We seem to be in a somewhat retrograde phase where we believe atomisation is integration, very Orwellian.

Agree with this

Erm, it's not the "weird luvvies" that are coming across as "barking mad."

@LessonsinChemistryandLove ,

I also watched Roots as a child with my white Jewish family.

There was no laughter and I strongly identified with the lead character (Kunta Kinte I think) and was horrified by what happened to him.

It was a powerful drama that I was given special dispensation to stay up for and allowed me to truly understand the full horror of slavery (I think I was about 13).

That is why drama should be a shared experience and bring people together.

(I am sorry for what happened to you at school though. Schools are horrid tribal environments and teachers need to control that kind of thing, never would have happened under my watch).

If white people could spend at least 50% of their energy battling racism than they have trying to bend backwards telling black people this theatre experience for them is racism (it’s not) divisive, talking about white slavery, the Rwanda policy, poor people…. Gosh. Just imagine!

So much of this thread has been a shining example of white fragility but it’s Black Out nights that are divisive and setting things back?
Phew, chile.

Why don't you care about white slavery?

Where has the poster said they didn't? What's with the whataboutery?

Well said