To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

[PenguinLord]

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

This. In a country where there are many more white people than black you are always generally going to be in the minority in most places if you are black, it’s just the make up of the population. If we are aiming for equality and inclusivity for everyone in all things we shouldn’t ever be promoting that anything is for black only or whites only IMO.

Second comment nailed it.

Eh?

White privilege doesn't suggest other privileges don't exist. Nor does it trump all others. Its just one, relating to one characterisitc. The clue is in the title.

My preference for digestives over hobnobs has nothing to do with white privilege. That doesn't disprove it's existence.

Weird.

You’ll have to explain what’s so bollocksy about what I said.

I can well imagine that some black people might feel more comfortable watching a play, about a racially sensitive subject, in the company of other black people, rather than in a predominantly white audience.

As you say, the demographics of the country are such that black people are unlikely to ever have that opportunity unless you have initiatives like black out nights.

What’s weird is that you don’t have any data to back up your assertions with.

Even if you were right, lack of degrading treatment should not be called a ‘privilege’.

Saying that white people are the descendants of slave owners is racist and divisive.

Are people from the Middle East to be seen as the descendants of Ottoman slave owners?

Are black people from Africa to be seen as the descendants of African slave traders?

Are Germans to be seen as the descendants of the nazis?

Do you see how ridiculous this gets?

In your quest to link all social ills to skin colour, you’re risking alienating good people. And, perhaps most importantly, you’re sacrificing the truth on the altar of ideology. This is never acceptable.

There is a reason why those aspiring to the higher echelons of society in the Anglosphere will keenly talk about racism but never about social class. Even though, as proven by Thomas Sowell and many others, it’s social class that is the biggest and most important predictor of how people do in life. Social class and family stability/culture. This is largely why certain non-white populations do better than other communities, including white people.

Over my dead body will I ever divide people based on their skin colour.

My family were persecuted, hunted like animals and killed by the nazis merely 80 years ago. But I don’t feel uncomfortable around Germans. And if I did, it would be my problem to solve, not the innocent people today who happened to be born German.

Everyone on this thread should watch this

Interesting, thank you. But it doesn’t demonise white people so no one cares about this..

So if white privilege is privilege based on the absence of discrimination based on skin colour then that his not so much a privilege but a reduced chance of being at the defining end of racism. I think this minimises the other forms of discrimination many white people face due to class, disability and gender for example.

By that analogy I have able bodied privilege and some would have male privilege but would people of colour be offended if we pointed out the non skin colour privileges they had? A black able bodied man may carry privileges that offset so called white privilege.

As pointed out we may have differing kinds of privilege so why not reduce the argument down to privilege in general and concentrate on reducing racism and discrimination instead of giving one vaguely defined section of the population a privilege we don't recognise?

It doesn’t minimise other forms of discrimination at ALL. I mean, as this thread shows, most white peoppe refuse to acknowledge it exists in the first place…

@valensiwalensi

I believe racism exists but a whole population can't be labelled as racist or having to apologise for racists. White privilege seems to be a label white people have to be aware of in their day to day existence when at its core the aim should be to reduce racism and target racists.

I can see how changing th culture of the met police force for example is a positive thing but I don't think it helps having a privilege that white people themselves often don't feel they have.It seems to suggest white people's lives are profoundly better by not having to face racism but Indont think the absence of discrimination equates to peivilege.

@Lion400

No, it's interesting isn't it.

I think people get confused because of the word “Privilege”. It just means your skin colour isn’t a barrier for you. I’m not sure why people seem to take issue with that?

I think the word "privilege" confuses people, because many white people feel anything but privileged. They may be struggle with issues such as class prejudice, grinding poverty, disability etc.

Nobody is arguing that, for example, a white working class single mum with a debilitating long term health condition that renders her unable to work is leading a "privileged" life. Of course she isn't, she is facing multiple disadvantages.

They are just saying that a black, working class single mum with the same debilitating long term health condition has to deal with an extra disadvantage on top of all of the others.

A black middle class doctor or lawyer, or similar, is clearly way more privileged in numerous ways than our disabled white working class mum who is living in poverty. Nobody would argue against that. But the black middle class doctor or lawyer may still encounter racism in a way that a white middle class doctor or lawyer does not.

White privilege doesn't mean that all white people are living privileged lives. It simply means that white people rarely have to think about the issue of race because it does not impact on their lives in the way that it typically does for people of other ethnicities. And yes, the absence of discrimination is a pretty low bar and I get why it seems ridiculous to describe that as "privilege" - it should be the bare minimum. But the fact is, not having to face that discrimination does give white people an advantage that POC do not have.

To add, I don't think anyone is suggesting that racism is the only kind of disadvantage that people face. Quite the contrary, in fact. That's why the whole concept of intersectionality has become so important these days. Many people face layer on layer of different disadvantages.

Exactly this.

when I go for a job interview I have never once worried that my skin colour is going to be an issue.
have I worried that I will be judged because of my size? Or my working class accent? Yes.

I am not free from discrimination because I am a white woman but my skin colour has never put me at a disadvantage.

I think that privilege is more about class and money than the colour of anyone's skin. I think that as a society we should be aiming for inclusivity rather than trying to create demarcation based on the skin tones. It feels like a retrograde step. We need excellent state schools that create an environment where all children can thrive. That would be a start for improving life chances for all.

Class divide doesn’t mean white privilege doesn’t exist.

Yet using "white privilege" as an all encompassing term does not help anyone's cause.
Not all white people are as privileged as others, that is why when you use it as a hammer to beat people with you get push back.

there have been several really simple explanations of white privilege is on the thread…. Scroll up.

Ok. There are so many posts up thread explaining white privilege and you still don’t understand what it means. Me explaining again isn’t going to help.

But ask yourself one question, would you rather black or white in British society today? If the idea of being black makes you slightly uncomfortable (police interactions, maybe having a foreign-sounding name on your CV etc), there’s your white privilege.

White privilege does exist, although I hate the term. There is no question that in certain areas, such as how you are treated by police, walking shabbily dressed into an expensive shop etc whites like me get a free pass.

However, it is one of many ‘privileges’ and nowhere near the most important. The primary and overriding privilege in today’s society is wealth. If you are black, have been to a private school and live in a £5 million house in Chelsea, your ethnicity won’t be a hindrance to anything.

I do think intersectionality works both ways and middle class wealthy blacks face virtually no discrimination in the uk today, in fact sometimes the reverse. If you are a black girl applying to read engineering at a top university, even from a private school, you will likely receive a ‘contextual’ offer lower than a white male.

And it is here that these black out evenings err. The reason fewer blacks go to the theatre in London than 13.5% is primarily due to wealth and ‘class’, not ethnicity. It is hard to find data but I strongly suspect that the same proportion of wealthy graduates like theatre from all ethnicities,

If the black out nights persuaded black people who would not normally attend theatre to go by offering free or heavily discounted tickets, and were marketed outside the normal channels, I would get onside. But, as far as I know they aren’t. They will be attended by the same wealthy privileged people who normally attend. These people are not in any sense suffering generational trauma and have no need to be protected in a safe space from the white people they share their wealth ‘privilege’ with.

respectfully you have no clue what you are talking about to the point of being offensive

But ask yourself one question, would you rather black or white in British society today? If the idea of being black makes you slightly uncomfortable (police interactions, maybe having a foreign-sounding name on your CV etc), there’s your white privilege.

Are you saying white people can't have foreign sounding names? Or that black people cant have British sounding names?

answer the question.