to think that this is a really weird premise for a novel? (Lionel Shriver)

[stressedout1994]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mania-lionel-shriver-review-kd35wrtn5

I think that Lionel Shriver used to write really interesting and thoughtful novels, but that her involvement in 'culture war' stuff has made her a bit myopic and odd. The premise of this novel is that there is a world where it's considered 'discriminatory' to call people stupid, or to say that some people are more intellectually gifted than others, and she claims that this is "a millimetre" away from where we are now. I certainly think that some elements of cultural life are becoming a bit more low-brow, but it seems soooooo overblown and hysterical to pretend that we have a culture that valorises stupidity.

I am just a bit suspicious of people who honk on about other people being inherently more gifted than others, and how this is a special and important distinction. I sometimes think this sort of thing is borderline eugenics-y.

Interested to hear what others think!

I can't read the article but I have found in recent years that LS seems to just say stuff to try to be shocking.
I do have a soft spot for her novels though, so I did click on this thread with interest.

Behind a paywall so can't comment. But surely tons of authors write stuff that's beyond the realms of where we are now just to make a point and open up discussion. It doesn't mean they agree that all brains are equal or that all brains aren't equal. It's a story. It's a discussion

I remember reading ‘We need to talk a lot Kevin’ when pretty young (pre dc) and being unsure whether to have chindre. The book was excellent

She's not trying to say that we are a millimetre away from lauding stupidity or banning anyone for saying some people are less intelligent than others. It's a thinly-veiled criticism of the fact that people are censoredand cancelled for saying that men can't be women. I'm pretty sure I read in an interview with her that she said the trans debate is the closest thing to what she's depicting in the book.

She’s become the Katie Hopkins of literature.

We Need To Talk About Kevin was smart and chilling.

I have no time for her these days.

If you can't read an article, put the URL into the search bar of Archive Today followed by the wildcard symbol (the star above the 8 on a keyboard)

She’s a genius at catching an idea in the zeitgeist and spinning it out in different futures.

We Need to Talk About Kevin was excellent, but I won't be buying anything new from LS. I don't know if she actually believes the offensive bile she comes out with nowadays or whether she is just courting controversy to cash in on the culture wars, but it's tedious and morally repugnant either way.

What offensive bile? Genuine question, I don’t know much about her.

I believe she's said some controversial things about immigration. That doesn't mean she's wrong about everything though.

That's Lionel. At heart she is a Randroid. Thinks of herself and her ilk as genius being held back by tiresome mediocrities like us - the dreaded Collective.

I can't read the article either. The one paragraph I could see suggests to me that it's an expanded version of Kurt Vonnegut's short story: "Harrison Bergeron". I first read it in the '70s, at secondary school.

"THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren't only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.

Some things about living still weren't quite right, though. April for instance, still drove people crazy by not being springtime. And it was in that clammy month that the H-G men took George and Hazel Bergeron's fourteenyear-old son, Harrison, away.

It was tragic, all right, but George and Hazel couldn't think about it very hard. Hazel had a perfectly average intelligence, which meant she couldn't think about anything except in short bursts. And George, while his intelligence was way above normal, had a little mental handicap radio in his ear. He was required by law to wear it at all times. It was tuned to a government transmitter. Every twenty seconds or so, the transmitter would send out some sharp noise to keep people like George from taking unfair advantage of their brains."

Link to the full short story: https://ia803002.us.archive.org/25/items/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Bergeron.pdf

Described the Irish as ' a scummy potato residue'. People worried about a hard border in Ireland or a return of the Troubles are really all liars making veiled threats to stop Brexit.

So now you know who to blame if Brexit is less than wonderful.

That’s quite some short story

Are you not sort of making her point for her though? You’re saying essentially that it’s offensive to talk about some people being more intelligent than others. She’s (presumably) imagining a world where differences in intellect can’t be acknowledged and what the effect of that might be. It isn’t a massive stretch in a world where the existence of sex is denied that the existence of other qualities like intellect might be denied. I think it’s an interesting premise and is culturally relevant. That said I haven’t read much of her recent work so maybe she’s gone downhill.

I don’t think you have to agree with someone’s politics to get something from their work particularly in the context of dystopian fiction. Part of the reason politics and culture are so polarised is probably that people only expose themselves to content that they already agree with.

@Abhannmor that's exactly how I feel! I think that a lot of the people who are preoccupied by natural / genetic intelligence secretly (or not very secretly) harbour the conviction that they are the gleaming ubermensch, being 'cancelled' or upbraided by us mewling, envious untermensch. Where has your genius got you, Lionel! You have to keep company with the free speech nutters ! Not very edifying or fun !

It's satire, not about intelligence and stupidity, except as a metaphor for where we are now with present-day obsessions and taboos. She's always been a rebel of sorts from childhood and continues to be outspoken and contrary,with a bit of provocation thrown in but always with what I think of as a kind of American candour and freedom of thought.

So as a self proclaimed 'free speech nutter' you want her to stop having free speech?

@Circe7 I don't think it's offensive to talk about the fact that some people ate more gifted in some respects than others. But I think that it's very overblown to suggest that we're in a climate where it's forbidden to do so. I am also suspicious of people who set high stock in the idea of inherent genius or gifts. It seems a good way of eliding the fact that a really good education (and many in the UK simply can't afford that - schools in crisis etc) coupled with routine and good nutrition will knock 'natural gifts' out of the park nine times out of ten. A lot of poor educational outcomes in the UK are pretty structural - bad schools, etc. Focussing on 'natural gifts' moves the focus away from that. It lets those who have done well crow at others who haven't, potentially for structural reasons. FWIW I went to a good state school and have done very well for myself - and I attribute that more to circumstance than genes.

Noooo @DoreenonTill8 but if I had to hang out with Toby Young et al I would stick a fork in my arm x

So fun to see that quite a few posts above demonstrate how pertinent the premise of this book is @stressedout1994

Ooh I like the sound of this. I once picked up an obscure Lionel Shriver book in a shop in Spain when on holiday about a man losing weight and it was AMAZING the twist floored me. I could barely sleep after reading Kevin. I have a hard time believing she’d write anything terrible

My thoughts exactly. She's written some good stuff but she has very odd views now.

Satire has to exaggerate, whilst also being believable.

I will read it, she's a great author.

She’s become the Katie Hopkins of literature.

Ooh I didn’t know this - what’s she done?