to think that this is a really weird premise for a novel? (Lionel Shriver)

[stressedout1994]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mania-lionel-shriver-review-kd35wrtn5

I think that Lionel Shriver used to write really interesting and thoughtful novels, but that her involvement in 'culture war' stuff has made her a bit myopic and odd. The premise of this novel is that there is a world where it's considered 'discriminatory' to call people stupid, or to say that some people are more intellectually gifted than others, and she claims that this is "a millimetre" away from where we are now. I certainly think that some elements of cultural life are becoming a bit more low-brow, but it seems soooooo overblown and hysterical to pretend that we have a culture that valorises stupidity.

I am just a bit suspicious of people who honk on about other people being inherently more gifted than others, and how this is a special and important distinction. I sometimes think this sort of thing is borderline eugenics-y.

Interested to hear what others think!

Yes. It’s surely not that difficult to grasp.

But that (M A S) is what she was known as, and given a public voice as. I'm sure there is plenty of documentary evidence south of the border but have long noted the way her NI records have been airbrushed out. Clearly friends not just in low places, but in official places.

Remember that neither the UK nor Ireland has a right to free speech or a right to unlimited access to information, and if there was a reason for removing records of M A S's activities during the peace negotiations in Ireland it would have been done thoroughly.

See also the activities of Sue Gray.

What exactly from The Handmaid’s Tale do you think is perilously close in the US?

I think some of you are being a bit deliberately obtuse and will look to crowbar the trans issue into literally anything.... sometimes a spade is a spade. This book is clearly designed to mock those who are stupid, and to a lesser extent those who will pursue an agenda to advance their own interests (so yes, maybe you could include female champions of trans issues in the latter camp... but it's hardly the guiding premise for a 300 page novel!)

@nojudge

I think underneath it all, she's very odd, and most likely ND

Why do you think she is ND? Are all people who are odd ND?

I hate LS politics but still love her books. The last one I read was Should We Stay or Should We go? which was published in 2022 and was excellent. I'll probably read this book too.

Lionel Shriver’s biggest issue has always and will always be that she isn’t the universally acclaimed intellect she thinks she is.

She got lucky with Kevin and since then has been on a one track road to be as offensive for attention as possible, rather than letting her writing garner the validation and fame she’s desperate for. I don’t disagree with the comparison to Katie Hopkins but I think Katie would at least have the self awareness not to be as anti immigration and xenophobic as Shriver is whilst being an immigrant.

For all her self assured genius, Shriver can be incredibly thick when it comes to common sense.

How much Lionel Shriver have you actually read? Her novels are all issue-based, often involving satirical, slightly- skewed alternative universes or near futures, egThe Mundibles is set in 2029 after the US has gone bankrupt and Mexico builds a wall to prevent US migrants crossing the border. She’s been entirely upfront about her dislike of what she terms ‘woke’ politics, and says there is no longer free speech in the UK.

Sounds like an update of Harrison Bergeron by Vonnegut. 1961.

I like Lionel, me. She's hilarious. Also in person kind of looks like Harrison Ford.😊

Of course there isn't free speech in the UK, there never has been, she knows that perfectly well. D notices anyone? No broadcasting of terrorist voices? It's one of the major legal differences from the USA. She's being very selective in complaining about it.

I really liked "So Much For That". Very real.

She’s writing satire. We don’t need to agree with her or like her but the quality of her writing and intellect is excellent in my opinion and this (minor) furore here just goes to show how apropos this work is. I look forward to reading it.

A genius can be a hopeless semstress and a magnificent painter may be a bit dumb. Really, an obsession with any aspect of personality loses perspective. One person is good at something but bad at something else. This, I think, is ALWAYS true. You have to find what you yourself are good at.

In this way, we are all equal. You cannot elevate one thing above all others, it's a ridiculous position to do so.

Gah! You keep missing the point completely

@AllProperTeaIsTheft summed it up in this post, about the fifth one on the thread:

She's not trying to say that we are a millimetre away from lauding stupidity or banning anyone for saying some people are less intelligent than others. It's a thinly-veiled criticism of the fact that people are censoredand cancelled for saying that men can't be women. I'm pretty sure I read in an interview with her that she said the trans debate is the closest thing to what she's depicting in the book.

Ah, yet another intelligent successful woman being attacked on social media because she’s dared to defend women’s freedom of speech / satirise trans fanaticism. 🥱

And if the book were in fact about this, this might be relevant…?

Yes, hard to believe, isn’t it?

Shriver has literally said that the book is at least in part an allegory for the trans issue. If anyone is being deliberately obtuse it's the person claiming that some posters are crowbarring in the trans issue, while completely and totally ignoring the fact that the woman who wrote the book has explicitly stated that is what it's about. It's actually kind of mind boggling that you would have the audacity to call some posters deliberately obtuse, while being a straight up example of almost awe inspiring levels of deliberate obtuseness.

And I didn't even like We Need To Talk About Kevin and am the type of person she has called 'potato scum.' I've no great love of Shriver but seriously. If she says her book is about the trans issue, why in the name of utter fuck would you claim anyone stating that is the case, is trying to crowbar it in? It makes you look deranged!

😂😂😂

Toby is another disappointed genius. His dad wrote the manifesto for the Labour landslide in 1945. I don't think Toby has ever forgiven him. One wonders why Lionel isn't back in the USA , embedded with the Trump campaign. There is a line between free speech and hateful demagoguery. Trump doesn't always walk it very carefully. Lionel could surely give him some pointers.

The last one I read was Should We Stay or Should We go? which was published in 2022 and was excellent. I'll probably read this book too.

@Gingerkittykat Oh I agree that was an excellent book. I will probably read this one too.

Presumably because she voted for Biden last time, has been vocally critical of both Trump and Biden and a while back had written in support of De Santis’s candidacy?

My problem with this is that it has already been written! 'Harrison Bergeron' was written over sixty years ago.

Wasn’t that just a fairly short short story, though? Not one of Vonnegut’s more subtle moments, with the masks for the above averagely beautiful, handicapping weights for the more than averagely strong/athletic etc.

She rightly defends JKR and criticises the trans agenda so ill back her regardless