to think that this is a really weird premise for a novel? (Lionel Shriver)

[stressedout1994]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mania-lionel-shriver-review-kd35wrtn5

I think that Lionel Shriver used to write really interesting and thoughtful novels, but that her involvement in 'culture war' stuff has made her a bit myopic and odd. The premise of this novel is that there is a world where it's considered 'discriminatory' to call people stupid, or to say that some people are more intellectually gifted than others, and she claims that this is "a millimetre" away from where we are now. I certainly think that some elements of cultural life are becoming a bit more low-brow, but it seems soooooo overblown and hysterical to pretend that we have a culture that valorises stupidity.

I am just a bit suspicious of people who honk on about other people being inherently more gifted than others, and how this is a special and important distinction. I sometimes think this sort of thing is borderline eugenics-y.

Interested to hear what others think!

She often uses odd-sounding premises as an initial spin off for more complex explorations of human nature. One of her novels is ostensibly about a running addict who hurts her knee but is in actuality a deeply nuanced and insightful exploration of the attachments, loyalties, resentments, irritations and unspoken competitiveness that goes up to make a long term marriage.

Another of her books is ostensibly about the US$ ceasing to be the world's reverse currency but is actually an epic dystopia which explores disability, chronic illness, old age, euthanaisa, sexuality, familial ties, nature vs nurture, narcissism and much more.

Another of her books is ostensibly about a woman being visited by her fat, depressed brother but is actually a jaw-droppingly sharp account of the perils of hero worship, the vacuity of the US's 'just follow your dreams' culture, financial inequalities in marriage and male midlife crisis.

I have no doubt that this latest premis will as usual be an interesting thought experiment which serves as a springboard for something much bigger.

If the majority of the population became Muslim - whether black, brown or green -then I imagine that society might move to restrictions on dress for women or making homosexuality illegal, likewise if the country becomes majority Christian evangelical, whether brown, white or pink , there might be bans on abortion etc
So no control on who immigrates could make a difference to society.

L Shriver writes columns every week - anyone who can churn out interesting, argument provoking copy this often is impressive imv

Really? I thought Big Brother was very good. Lots to think about in it.

For anyone still on this thread - good review in the FT: https://www.ft.com/content/cc69e023-2359-4acb-9fc7-3889592d962f Notable excerpt: "When fiction reads too much like an op-ed, however, it loses its seductive power. Without the mordant originality of, say, Shalom Auslander’s Mother for Dinner, which skewered identity politics by imagining a family of contemporary cannibals, Mania fails to harness satire’s potential to make you think (...)One of the “pleasures of writing books”, Shriver noted at the Oxford Union, was being pushed to “approach a subject with more complexity and with more appreciation for other viewpoints”. In Mania, sadly, she has too much fun pillorying stupidity to offer herself, or her readers, this pleasure."

I maintain what I said previously - this likely fails as a satire because Shriver is too invested in the 'vehicle' for the satire, i.e. that lots of people are stupid and isn't it lovely and brilliant that she and her readers aren't!

I think Shriver is a really interesting writer and will read this but still think it sounds quite lazy and self-congratulatory.

So you still haven’t read it, but are congratulating yourself on your negative view of what it might be like being shared by a reviewer who has read it? That sounds considerably more ‘lazy and self-congratulatory’ than Shriver.

@PlasticOno I am sharing a link to the review for others who are interested in the novel and who might want to read it. I have added a comment. Of course I haven't read it - it's literally only come out today.

You sound very cross. It's hard to have a discussion on here when people get so belligerent!

It’s hard not to feel a little cross when someone goes to the trouble of starting a belligerent internet post accusing a novel they haven’t read of being ‘overblown’ and ‘hysterical’ and ‘self-congratulatory and lazy’, when they’ve quite clearly not understood what she’s actually satirising.

Im not a particular LS fan, though have read three or four of her novels and some journalism, but I think criticising a novel you haven’t read based on your own misunderstanding of her satire is unfair.

Oh the irony 😆

"I am allowed to criticise and pillory a book I have not read"

"You are not allowed to criticise me for doing that"

@PlasticOno I'm not going to carry on engaging after this as am v busy, but I don't think my original post is belligerent - just expressing a strongly-worded view.

I actually like a lot of Lionel Shriver's journalism and have enjoyed lots of her novels. I've already clearly expressed my views on how and why I don't think the premise 'works' as a jump-off point for a satire.

Worth noting - as many others have - that this has already been 'done' by Vonnegut. Was discussing this with a friend and she added that Shriver's 'Game Control' was "basically a rip off of 'Mating' (Norman Rush) but with more eugenics." So think it's fair to say that some of her novels are lazy in more than one respect. Nevertheless will likely find lots to enjoy in the novel and am sure you will too. Not responding to any more posts as it's too heated.

@Geebray get a life !

Not responding to any more posts as it's too heated.

Ha ha ha.

"Not responding to any more posts as they don't agree with me"

As Americans, you now allow elite men to force fertile womens to continue pregnancies they don't want. Force women who have been raped to birth their rapists' babies. Force women with pregnancies who are a danger to their lives to travel to other states to abort. Vote for sexist, cheating, elite men to rule your country.

The rest of the World is horrified, it's not that far from handmaid's Tale, but because you're in the middle of it and getting used to its slow creepy advance, you can't see it.

A ‘strongly-worded view’ on something you haven’t read, though. Which is both barmy and kind of worrying.

I don’t think Vonnegut having written a (somewhat clunky) short story in the 60s set in a society where everyone ‘above average’ at anything is penalised by physical handicaps like leg weights on dancers and athletes is any kind of ‘gotcha’ reason to think writing a novel length satire set in an alternative 2011 where calling someone stupid is a hate crime is derivative. It’s not as though no one wrote an adultery novel after Madame Bovary.

I looked up Lionel Shriver the other day as i wondered how she was doing - her book about ageing, Should We Stay or Should We Go was seriously disturbing - and saw that she had a new book out.

She is a unique writer. I thought The Post Birthday World was excellent, and Kevin. I liked Double Fault and A Perfectly Good Family and So Much For That. The Mandibles was where she started to lose me.

She came to a writing retreat I was on once. She basically said to us all, be careful what you wish for (with regards to becoming a novelist.) I don't think she particularly wanted to be there; she'd been called in because Hilary Mantel had just won the booker and was no longer free.