I've caused WW3 at work - vegetarian

[Lazykitten]

I'm veggie. Nearly vegan but once in a blue moon eat cheese so don't refer to myself as that.

We have a team meal booked. In theory it's for us plebs as a thank you for hitting targets. In reality it's to network with the big bosses who comes up to celebrate with us.

Meal is booked in Manchester in the evening at a restaurant renowned for its meat. You don't order a meal, they just come round with sides of beef,lamb, pork etc every 5 minutes and carve at the table. I'm not going to eat this. Nor do I want to sit there surrounded by meat, its been so long since I've ate it the smell turns my stomach a little. Plus it's Manchester not exactly a small town so there was opportunity to book plenty of other nice restaurants. So I've said thank you but no thank you as I wouldn't enjoy it.

Team manager says I'm being ridiculous. That there's a salad bar. And if I don't come I'll need to book the day off as leave.

We've locked horns before as in the summer we had an event at a famous race course - one where there are often fatalities. I said I didn't want to go as I disagree with horse racing, he pushed me into it, so I went and felt awful. I'm not going this year so I'm going to have that battle coming up too.

I'm not a confrontational person so this is really upsetting me. I just wanted to quietly decline but now it's blown up and everyone seems to have an opinion.

Do you think I need to suck it up and go?

Sorry, but this is exclusive, and inappropriate by your manager, so you need to get HR to send them on some diversity training. I currently have to organise a meeting in a couple of weeks time and I always go with 60% veggie/vegan because I know that the meat eaters usually go, "Ooh that looks nicer than mine!" and then woof it up.

I write this as a meat eater, but I have the nous to know you do not cover a salad with bacon, as happened to a chum in Paris when she asked for the veggie option!

Your team manager is a twat. So much for inclusivity. In a city like Manchester they can do better.

As for the races, personally I wouldn't go at all. I appreciate that noone gives a toss about my morals and I don't expect people not to go to that kind of event because of it but a meal should be more inclusive.

I've not been very articulate but I hope you understand what I'm getting at.

If the decision to go to an all-meat restaurant has been driven by a bunch of bloke-y blokes at work doing bloke-y things and not caring about including you... I'd say you can go down the bullying/dignity at work route.

I've seen these attitudes before with a bunch of men and one female vegetarian. I had to intervene because they categorically did not give a shit about her, kept making jokes about meat and she was getting increasingly upset (in her case, she was vegetarian for religious purposes, but that wasn't the point). Absolutely men sometimes try to force the meat restaurant on veggie females to be jerks and assert their power.

When it's women who want to go to a meat restaurant, sure, they get annoyed they don't get to go there, but they don't tend to bully over it and they compromise on a restaurant that isn't all-meat, but has actual veggie choices beyond one salad leaf. I don't know what it about meat that gets the primal bully juices going for a group of men, but it can make them behave like idiots.

I think you need to involve HR, TBH, given the attitudes here. It doesn't sound like something you can resolve informally on your own.

Again, absolute meat lover here, but no way on earth would I pick a restaurant like this if the party included people who didn't eat meat! That's just a dick move.

And I don't think there's any evil intent. I think my TM is wanting to impress the big fish from London so booked the restaurant he would most like to go to without much thought. It's then embarrassing if I don't go and he has to explain it so he's doubled down. And I don't doubt he genuinely thinks I'm being ridiculous and making an issue over nothing. There's only 6 of us, and yes I'm the only female and only veggie.

This is actually part of my R&R that meeting targets us rewarded by XYZ. I might look it up and see what the wording is!!

Why do you need to take a day off if the meal is in the evening @Lazykitten ?

This has got to be one of the silliest posts I have read on mumsnet for a long time.

What you choose to do in your personal life has absolutely nothing to do with the OP in this situation. You do realise that who you chose to marry, whether you chose to eat pork in the home you shared with your husband, who you chose to be in a relationship beforehand, etc. are all personal choices. You got to choose.

The issue here is that this is a work event. The OP is being compelled to attend the event or take a day's leave. She is not being given a choice.

I know the restaurant you mean, and no way as a vegetarian would I go there. This is bullying. Of all the places they could have chosen. It would’ve been so easy to find somewhere less “meaty”.

@cremebrulait

As a vegan, I’ve heard some extremely silly attempts to justify paying for animal abuse, but ‘OP, if I was sitting at a table with you I would find your disgust of meat to be culturally offensive.’ Has to win the gold medal for most inventive silliness 😆

Look up constructive dismissal, copy and paste the definition, and be send it to your boss. He’ll soon find a new venue.

That is the million dollar question. The reasoning is its seen as an extension of the working day. Tbf we would usually leave the office a bit early and have drinks first. It's a day we'd usually be WFH so the 'in office' days have been moved around to accommodate

There is a valid point somewhere in that post though. I would say it's important to accommodate both meat eaters and veggies. Just as some veggies don't want to go to Caveman Central for dinner, some meat eaters have quite restricted diets for medical reasons, and they do genuinely fare better with a meat-heavy meal.

I think it would be perfectly reasonable to organise a meal at a normal restaurant where it would be possible to order either a meat dish or a veggie dish without the whole restaurant stinking of a slaughterhouse.

And that's part of being in a team - making compromises and making sure no one is ever left behind. A company that can't organise a meal out to suit everyone clearly is struggling at managing its people and creating a culture where everyone feels welcome and empowered to perform at their best.

It's symptomatic of a shit employer...

Whoever organised this is a dick! I’ve got an event with 25 people in Spain coming up and I’ve managed to book a meal that caters for meat eater, vegetarians, a Muslim colleague and someone who has coeliac. It’s not hard, it’s just inconsideate and lazy. I say that as a meat eater with zero intolerances who organises team events regularly and cannot imagine not catering to people’s needs. I wouldn’t go

I'm not vegetarian, and I know exactly the type of place you mean as we've got one near us that I've been to before
They bring round huge skewers of different cuts of meat to the table every five minutes and carve them at the table.
There's no way it's any place for a vegetarian or vegan.
Salad bar?! Yeah, let's pay over £20 for a few bloody lettuce leaves and tomatoes or whatever, completely defeats the whole "experience" of the place and not worth the price!
They're taking the piss, they can't force you to go.

The case law (so far) says that the "belief" clause of the EA applies to someone who is an "ethical vegan". It suspect it would be hard to claim that you were that while admitting to eating cheese occasionally.

Also, as this write-up makes clear, it doesn't mean "If one person is a vegan we can't have a company do in a restaurant that serves a lot of meat". It means you can't be fired if you are required to do something as part of your job description that would lead you to harm or exploit animals Laws always have clauses about reasonableness and every case would be judged on its merits. https://www.littler.com/publication-press/publication/ethical-veganism-protected-belief-uk-what-does-mean-employers

For what it's worth I think the company are being dicks about this, but that doesn't mean it rises to the level of a legal dispute.

I really feel for you OP. I am a meat eater, and have been to a place like you describe. No way would I expect a vegan or vegetarian to go somewhere like that. The meat is in your face, in a way it just isn't in most other restaurants. You have not made a fuss, just declined, which was the right thing to do. The resulting fuss is down to your bosses bad choices, and is in no way your responsibility.

I don't recommend sitting there eating nothing either. I once went on a work do and sat next to a girl who sat and sulked all evening because we hadn't gone to a pizza restaurant. She totally sucked the joy out of the evening.

@Lazykitten I think you would show your boss up even more for being a twat if you didn't eat because it would be obvious that he hadn't thought about all his team members when he booked, and maybe he would be the one who ends up with egg on his face.

Just go for the drinks and quietly slip away before the meal.

'fine' isn't really good enough for over £30 a pop!

I make pasta and risotto at home. They are basic and uninspiring. Disappointing for an expensive restaurant. The only form I order risotto in when I'm out is arancini.

The only vegan options there are potatoes, sweet potatoes, broccoli and peppers. That's not a meal.

I think he wants you to take leave so that is the public 'reason' for you not attending.

He has massively fucked up with his restaurant choice, and you have made this apparent. A restaurant like that is a poor choice unless you know for sure everyone likes that kind of fare.

None of this is your problem.

You have two questions for HR:

• Do you have to attend an evening event like this? If yes you have to go, so will just have to anage it somehow. But the answer will surely be no.
• Do you have to take annual leave if not going? The answer will surely be no.

I think you need to speak to HR about this. Say you really do not want a fuss, all you want is to politely decline.

I agree.
It's so easy to find places that do a mix. Why the extremism?

I'm with you OP. I eat meat, but I do not like those places where they parade raw meat about the place. I work with several vegetarians, and we always accommodate them when choosing work-related events and venues.

for me that's pretty much true. If I ate my "five a day" I'd be living in the toilet and in quite a lot of pain. I don't dislike all vegetables and I do enjoy fruit but have to be massively careful about the amounts that I eat. Its the same with soy, lentils, most nuts andpulses and beans generally....and even the smell of coconut makes me nauseous. so no, not just daft.

Thanks. He's being ridiculous then. If he wants to "save face" then he can just say you had to leave straight after work for personal reasons