I've caused WW3 at work - vegetarian

[Lazykitten]

I'm veggie. Nearly vegan but once in a blue moon eat cheese so don't refer to myself as that.

We have a team meal booked. In theory it's for us plebs as a thank you for hitting targets. In reality it's to network with the big bosses who comes up to celebrate with us.

Meal is booked in Manchester in the evening at a restaurant renowned for its meat. You don't order a meal, they just come round with sides of beef,lamb, pork etc every 5 minutes and carve at the table. I'm not going to eat this. Nor do I want to sit there surrounded by meat, its been so long since I've ate it the smell turns my stomach a little. Plus it's Manchester not exactly a small town so there was opportunity to book plenty of other nice restaurants. So I've said thank you but no thank you as I wouldn't enjoy it.

Team manager says I'm being ridiculous. That there's a salad bar. And if I don't come I'll need to book the day off as leave.

We've locked horns before as in the summer we had an event at a famous race course - one where there are often fatalities. I said I didn't want to go as I disagree with horse racing, he pushed me into it, so I went and felt awful. I'm not going this year so I'm going to have that battle coming up too.

I'm not a confrontational person so this is really upsetting me. I just wanted to quietly decline but now it's blown up and everyone seems to have an opinion.

Do you think I need to suck it up and go?

I think stick to your guns, and don't do the drinks thing if there's any danger it'll look like you're flouncing by leaving before the meal. Your TL needs to be honest about the fact that the restaurant plans inevitably exclude you. I think you need to be prepared to argue your corner even if you're labelled difficult over your vegetarianism and animal welfare - when you have principles that's part of the deal really.

I'm a meat eater but I think this venue is extremely unsuitable for a work outing (unless it's a convention of butchers!)

The behaviour of the company following your comments (basically excluding OP and making her take the day as leave) must break every good practice guideline in the book.

I think I would be looking for another job so you don't have to work with such Neanderthals - easier said than done unfortunately.

I think they are being unreasonable asking you to book a day off. As someone else said, maybe join them for a drink afterwards. I can sympathise with you about the racing, I simply can't stand it. I've been in this position about 3 times, horse & greyhound racing. People are strange, quite happy to tell me that an 80's night is "not their thing' yet when I politely decline a night at the dogs, all hell breaks loose & I should get over myself. Nobody died at an 80's night (I hope) but animals die all of the time because of racing. Sorry! Rant over. I'm also a vegetarian. Stick to your guns.

if its not actually training for work then as a retired NHS manager, I would say that you can decline even if its in work hours. Of course if it is in work hours you need to attend work instead. Hell will freeze over before I ever attend a racecourse for ANYTHING. I have got various dietary issues and would find it very difficult to eat at a classy vegan restaurant unless I stuck to bread and olives (which I love) so would probably decline to go in those circs. I do get that food smells can be nauseating. If it was me i would push back against idiot manager but I am old and witchy, also that depends on how easy it would be to find another job/how much support you will get from your colleagues/what your HR setup is like.

i eat meat but hate these sort of places. unless you’re into eating vast amounts until you get the meat sweats they are actually pretty shit!

i wouldn’t be going in your position - i’d work in the day and join for a drink if i had to - and 100% would escalate to HR if i was ordered to take annual leave.

i also hate horse racing (presume it’s Aintree you’re referring to) and would be going to a race day either - although would consider taking AL to avoid that one if i had to.

I would have refused to have gone even if there are salad etc. options. I'm vegan and can cope if a few people I was with were eating meat but would draw the line at the sort of meat-focused, carving-at-the-table restaurant you describe. I wouldn't want to stop people going there if they had to but would expect time off if it was purely social, or to be able to work as normal if it was not.

I would have dug my heels in as well at the racing day out. It would be both the unnecessary risk to animals (and riders) but also the links to the gambling industry. In my opinion, workplaces need to be a bit more aware of the fact there could be employees who are giving up addictions such as gambling or alcohol. Lots of people keep that kind of struggle hidden. Plenty of people object both to gambling, alcohol, and particular food preferences for religious reasons too.

I'm not vegetarian or vegan and I've been to one of these - I don't eat from salad bars (and this one was particularly well picked over) and I just want to be brought a menu, order a dish I want and be brought it at my seat without all the pissing about. I wouldn't go again either, work or otherwise and I don't think anybody should be forced to go.

I don't like or want to be around gambling either, so as a PP said I wouldn't go to horse racing. Stick to your guns.

this. I also think it might have an effect on clients if they know that the company supports things that are contentious or may be against the faith or ethics of a valued client and wonder if your manager has considered that? I am not saying that everyone on a company must behave in certain ways in their private time but when its a company event then it reflects the company whether they like it or not.

HR

Vegetarianism/veganism is a protected characteristic under the equality act as it is a belief. They are discriminating against you both by choosing that restaurant and by insisting you attend a race day. Don't let this lie.

On looking at the menu out of interest, there are vegan, vegetarian and even halal options. Some of the starters are vegetarian and look quite nice as well. So there’s more choice for OP than just the salad bar.

TBH as a vegetarian for over 30 years (but who cooks meat for family), I wouldn’t have an issue with going to this restaurant as a work event but I would stipulate that I wanted to sit at the end of the table so meaty bits from carving didn’t end up on my plate.

The OPs manager is an absolute dick though to suggest she needs to book a day off if not wanting to attend a work event that starts at 4-5pm so she’s right to dig her heels in and escalate a grievance to HR.

Good point about the gambling. People in recovery shouldn't have to share that or go to somewhere that will trigger them and also Muslims are forbidden from gambling so this would exclude them completely. Someone in senior management needs anti discrimination training!!

I get that there are veggie options but the bigger issue is that this particular restaurant is making an event out of eating meat - it’s not like OP can avoid it, it’s basically rubbing meat eating in her face! Inappropriate.

Never heard of this place before but having googled, it just looks like a pretentious Toby Carvery. Not what I'd call high end dining.
Yanbu to object and I say that as a meat eater!
As a pp said - I'd attend the pre drinks, try to ingratiate yourself with the big boss and then in passing explain why you are dissappointed to be unable to attend the meal.
And talk to your HR department about the annual leave thing. That doesn't sound right at all.

I think:

Firstly, your boss is a dick, how ridiculous to try and insist someone comes to socialise, and the a/l thing is complaint worthy.

Secondly, the restaurant sounds awful. I eat meat but prefer veggie/vegan options and almost always go for those over the meat options when dining out. I'd hate the platters of meat everywhere.

Thirdly, on the horse racing, if one of my team had a moral objection I'd rethink the activity if possible (not always possible if it's a corporate thing though I know). Actually you never know who else is not speaking up and feels the same. I agree with you on it being immoral by the way.

Fourthly, there should always be an option for people who don't want to attend for whatever reason. At Christmas we had people who didn't want to join the Xmas lunch as we have to pay for our own (and frankly it was too expensive, they arranged it before I joined the team though). We'd all been given the afternoon off to attend so I made sure the non attendees logged off and went home to enjoy the free afternoon off. It's only fair.

What I'd do in your place is to attend whatever is going on until 5 and then excuse myself to go home before the meal starts.

If it were me I wouldn't attend either the racing or the meal, and let the manager force the issue if he wants to - HR will soon put him straight.

I wonder if there is an element of him wanting to put the OP in an awkward position and test her boundaries, especially as she is the only female. I'd be looking to move jobs, possibly within the same company as I can't believe all of the managers are as appalling as this one, but if not turning up to these events would genuinely damage my career prospects, I'd leave. At some point you have to stand up for your values, and if there is a clash with those of the organisation then something has to give. I've left a job for that reason.

If you cook meat for your family, I can see why it wouldn't bother you. As someone who doesn't ever cook meat, I would find it uncomfortable. I have absolutely no issue with other people eating meat when they're with me, but the constant carving of huge chunks of meat and the carcasses would be too much.

YANBU
I'm not a vegetarian (although I used to be) and I would struggle at a place like this as I'm not really much of a meat eater. It's extremely specialised imo and not at all a good choice for a work networking meal.

As for the race course event, I wouldn't have attended that, for the same reasons that you object OP. I don't got to zoos either, and I wouldn't go to dog racing. There's various things that I just don't agree with or approve of, so I don't do them, even in a work-related context.

Did you read the options?

Two kinds of risotto
Pasta
Tomato and coconut stew

It's not exactly enticing!

Looks like your office is not inclusive. They could have booked a restaurant which has more options in the menu.

Last year they forced you to go to horse racing, what kind of office is this? Can't they have 21st century options for entertainment?

You need to forget that you occasionally eat a bit of cheese, and identify as vegan, as that is a protected characteristic under UK Equality Act. Then if any problems, go to HR @Lazykitten

I’d have a huge lunch, go to the restaurant and not eat anything, not even the salad. Decline all food, sip on water and when pressed just say the meat smell is making you feel really nauseous. Keep fanning yourself like you might puke any second

Could you attend for the drinks and make sure your arsehole manager sees you, then quietly slip away when everyone else goes to eat? Just don't make a big deal of saying goodbye or drawing attention to yourself.

No one is being full on unreasonable

Veggies are presumably rare in your company, they’ve picked a venue that’s fun for meat eaters, and now don’t want to change their plans for one person. Booking such a divisive venue isn’t on, but I imagine it was thoughtless rather than intentional exclusion.

you are a very committed near vegan so understandably really don’t want to go.

They could compromise by changing the venue, you could compromise by going this time but having the management / HR agree that they no longer book uninclusive venues (which includes horseracing)

If you want a future at the company, then it would be wise to go this time, and insist on a change in policy as above. If it were me I would involve the communications dept as well as HR as these kind of events for big staff entertainment aren’t a good look for the company.

If you aren’t too concerned about your progress then just go for a drink beforehand.

Why on earth would they tell you to take the day off if it's an evening meal.

Utterly ridiculous