Is this going to cause a massive family rift?

[Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor]

Sorry for length of this -

I have an older brother who is a little bit of a moocher - I’ve posted about him before under a different name. He has had a great education and many opportunities in life and has ended up, in his mid 30s, with no money and financially dependent on my mother. He never pays for himself and works a couple of hours a day, and that’s it. He is always feeling sorry for himself due to having no money, and therefore my mother/other siblings bank roll him as they worry he is depressed. I think he’s just playing on their emotions/using them (but I can’t be sure of this).

He is always asking us if he can do odd jobs for cash. We let him dog sit last year whilst we were away - fridge full of food for him at ours, 25£ a day etc, and he fucked off for 10 hours a day to see friends and left our dog crying (we could hear on camera after neighbour messaged asking if dog was alright)/had to get mother to intervene as we were abroad. Came home to a fruit bowl full of rotting fruit and fridge full of off milk etc.

Anyway we are expecting and he’s due to be god father as he is an extremely fun brother/uncle. We offered him 200-300£ to paint a wardrobe for the baby as he’s very talented artistically and his hobby is art related. He agreed. We set a deadline of 1 week for the work to be finished. 3 weeks later. 3 weeks of him lying (I can’t do it today as I’m working - turns out he was just at home chilling etc), showing up hours after he said he would, us waiting around for him….what he has painted is shockingly bad - he didn’t put the tape on properly and it needs totally clearing up/the non painted bits will need to be repainted to fix it. Anyway we basically said “if you don’t want to do this please just say as we had another person lined up”. No, he’s sorry but he’s not motivated. Ok, fine. So we have to get the other person to undo all his shitty work and the deadline was weeks ago and this has been a totally maddening experience.

Today he messaged asking for money for the time spent on it. On one hand - maybe he is depressed (although he is never too depressed to see his friends and do the things HE wants to do - dinners, lunches, cinema trips, gym etc) and he did spend some time painting. On the other hand he totally fucking let us down and it’s going to now cost us MORE money than the other person originally quoted as she’s not starting from scratch.

I don’t want to cause a huge family argument if we don’t pay him so do we just pay him something? What’s fair?

I think when issues like this relate to your own family, it’s difficult to see the bigger picture. But your priority should be with your new baby’s arrival! He should be helping with that and not wanting to divert money away from your family. He doesn’t have dependents but you do. Time to step away from the nonsense

The short story (pun intended) was that he joined DC and me spontaneously at the playground. We were going swimming and he wanted to come with us. He didn’t have trunks with him as it was an impromptu thing so I offered to buy him some at the sports club. He fucked off into the big pool and did lengths for 30 mins and the sauna. We were in the baby pool - the only time he joined us was to come in and take the spare children’s goggles I had and fuck off back to the pool. This was very recently so things have really come to a head now for me re what I’m prepared to deal with .

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor You mention another sibling

What do they think of this?

I wasn't going to say it but now I've now read the replies by others so about the drinking.... one contact ended up with her brother in A&E from his drinking about a year after their mother died.

Their mum did everything for him. I'm pleased to say my contact wasn't having any of it, and he did at least have a job.

But he was asking her to do all his domestics, like he thought it was her job. She had cancer (recovered now) and he never gave a shit about that.

One day she got that call from A&E and when he eventually agreed to therapy, it was made clear to him that the loss wasn't his mother. The loss was a massive chunk of his adulthood. She has virtually gone NC now, there's no hope really.

My mother is 85 and my parents were the community type, so know loads of people. The number of 40 something gamers living with elderly parents and expecting to be waited on is astonishing. Your brother might be in the flat upstairs but I'm going to guess your mum sorts all his domestics?

Thanks for adding the story. He was incredibly selfish.

has he ever been taught to think of other people or how his actions affect others?

Given everything you mentioned about DB, is he really going to be an extra special uncle?
Will he take the same interest as your older child's godfather?
A friend was in a similar situation. The godparent enjoyed being the centre of attention at the Christening and then barely bothered. Didn't come to its Confirmation (which godparents were invited to)

My other sibling lives locally and he and DB are very close so they go out for drinks/dinner etc a lot as well. I think he feels quite responsible for DB and although he does appreciate he’s enabling him DB doesn’t let him down in the same way as he has me and therefore I think he is a lot more generous hearted towards him
than I now am. He thinks he’s depressed and I’m being hard on him.

WHY would you ask someone like that to be a godparent?? 🤦‍♀️

He does the same thing over and over and you keep expecting different results.

Pay him something this time to keep the peace but stop asking him to do things and stop expecting him to change.

You offered to buy him trunks.
You had the expectation that in exchange for that he'd play with your kids in the pool.

He didn't realise what your agenda for him was.

He sounds fairly naive. Not malicious or calculating, just childlike and thinking you are his Mummy and therefore he can be a kid.

He sounds about 13 or 14 when you describe his actions.

If, say, DHs friend was at the playground would you have offered to buy him trunks?

The dynamic of you offering to pay for the trunks and 'take' him to the pool was putting your brother into a child place while you be Mummy. That's what you are all doing with him.

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor Oh well

He can be the one to parent your brother when the time comes.

I understand that family dynamics are frequently awful but I reckon you'd be better off quietly stepping away. And he is not a fun uncle. He didn't actually want to join you at swimming. Why draw your DC into that?

This. Exactly this.

it Was 100% clear I was asking if he wanted to swim WITH US. Not on his own WITH US. The expectation was incredibly clear.

it wasn’t my agenda at all - you seem to be wanting to make me the “bad guy”. I was just taking my children swimming and thought he might like to join us and play in the pool as he loves playing with the children. It had never occurred to me he would just go swimming on his own!

I definitely don’t want to be in any sort of “mummy” role with him but my other sibling and mother just think:

”he can’t afford to pay for stuff on his own, so either we pay for him or he’s left out, which isn’t in the spirit of family”.

therefore everyone automatically pays for him.

If there was a contract in place, you wouldn't have to pay. There was a deadline which he missed, did not perform to standards, and you had to pay more to the other person due to his painting. so he would have owed the excess you paid new person.

Simply say not paying.

That's what I was going to say. No way would I pay him for that, but then I wouldn't have expected to pay a brother to do me a favour anyway.

Your family thinks they're being kind to your brother with this behaviour (from all of you) but you're not. Do not pay him - he did half of a job and did it badly. In the real world nobody would pay him for that job. Propping up men like this only increases their laziness and entitlement. Eventually he'll break the law and still think it's ok, and you won't be able to baby him then.

As for the godparent thing - I assume your kids are very young, given your talk about the 'fun' uncle that he is. Well that's not what godparents are about. Your kids are going to get older and they're going to see him as the person he is. You don't realise it now but they will relate to him person to person and they will have opinions. And either it will be 'Uncle Trunkless doesn't work and still has a good life so why should we?' or it'll be 'Uncle Trunkless is such a creepy loser, lying in bed at his mum's at his age. Why did my parents think we'd want him in our lives?'

Incidentally, the distress he caused your poor dog would have been enough for me to keep this selfish, nasty creep a long way away from any living being that I loved - permanently.

I wouldn't pay for anything and I also wouldn't want him to be the godfather to my child tbh

Incidentally, the distress he caused your poor dog would have been enough for me to keep this selfish, nasty creep a long way away from any living being that I loved - permanently

This. He is a cruel, horrible man and you somehow think a guy that demands money from his own family for doing fuck all and NEGLECTS YOUR DOG makes a "fun uncle"- yes, coz nothing says "fun uncle" like animal neglect does it?

Bloody hell.

Because he does come round often and see the children, he does play with them and he does get them birthday/Christmas presents and shows up for those events. He does love them very much. He’s also a very fun brother and we have a great time together. But there is just unfortunately this massive flip side that he’s not the only one to blame
for.

It seems like one of your main worries about this situation is if you do stop tolerating his behaviour and stand up to him, then the rest of your family will say "Oh you are being hard on him, he's just depressed you meanie."

I completely understand why you don't want that incessant dialogue visited apon you.

As Galling as it is, do what it takes to put this latest nonsense to bed so that you can move on from it and stop being stressed/annoyed by it.
This might mean paying him all or a portion of the fee. But it might be worth it to shut this down. But Get a printed quote from the replacement painter for fixing his work ( and a pic of that too) and send it to any relative who complains or gossips about this, so that the facts are not misrepresented. (not that it is any of their business).
Then take a GIANT step back. Let the rest of the family deal with him. Its not your job to get involved in all his drama.
You don't have to make a statement about it or argue the point with any relatives. Dont discuss him at all. Dont get into situations where he can visit his behavour on you. "Sorry, we've already got a dog sitter for next year, I can't let them down by cancelling (even if you haven't), Sorry I've already paid a deposit for someone to paint ect... " even if these are little white lies. Just quietly move to the side.
You have a new baby and your own family unit and that is your focus. Its actually a brilliant excuse too.
The less involved you are, the less you have to get into these scrapes with him.
Up to now, you've been expecting him to do things that realistically he will never be able to deliver on. You know what he is like now. You know what your family's attitude is, so avoid situations where he's going to pull you into his mess again like the plague. That's not to say dislike him or stop chatting with him or going to family gatherings, but don't volunteer and bat away any suggestions of him getting involved in any of your projects or childcare. If you ask nothing of him, he cannot let you down.

You can probably have several godparents too. So if he has to be a gp, then pick another responsible one/two as well so that it doesn't drive you mad. Perhaps if you do this his impact on the rest of the family will be greater and they will start to see his behaviour more clearly but you will be less troubled by it.

He does love them very much

LOLOL he loves them soooo much that he half arsed a painting job for your baby (he was probably drunk whilst doing it) then tried to charge you money for his crappy lazy paint job. But sure, he's super loving.

If he really loved them he'd have done it for free, not tried to screw money out of you for something that clearly took him 10 minutes after 15 cans of Stella.

That isnt "love" btw.

I know a few blokes like this.
Generally failed actors who have had some kind of breakdown (normally involving alcohol or drugs) then found spirituality or an NLP course. Has he done either of those yet? If not it's coming....

I wouldn't pay but if you feel you have to bung him £20 and disengage.

Ah OP, I really feel for you - DH has a brother like this, who was enabled by the family from his teenage years after they lost their dad. Everyone made excuses for his flaky behaviour / inability to get to school / college / get a job and eventually he turned into a giant mooching jobless baby. Yes he was fun with our kids, but his learned helplessness and sponging off his DM drove me mad, to the point where I could barely bear to hold a conversation with him as I found him and his attitude so frustrating. I suspect your DH may feel the same about your DB if you scratch the surface. Anyway, when DM died I made it clear that the enabling was over. He now has a job, is happier and I actually love him.

Unfortunately it seems you can't change your family (unless guiding them to therapy will help), so removing your new family unit from him will be the best thing to do. It's sad, but necessary - you don't want him in a position where he can let you down again as it's so wearing (and the cruelty to your dog is unforgiveable). Also - do NOT pay for the whole of the painting. Half at most. Say you are stretched as you have a baby / maternity leave on the way & now need the cash for the remedial work. Let him learn.