Is this going to cause a massive family rift?

[Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor]

Sorry for length of this -

I have an older brother who is a little bit of a moocher - I’ve posted about him before under a different name. He has had a great education and many opportunities in life and has ended up, in his mid 30s, with no money and financially dependent on my mother. He never pays for himself and works a couple of hours a day, and that’s it. He is always feeling sorry for himself due to having no money, and therefore my mother/other siblings bank roll him as they worry he is depressed. I think he’s just playing on their emotions/using them (but I can’t be sure of this).

He is always asking us if he can do odd jobs for cash. We let him dog sit last year whilst we were away - fridge full of food for him at ours, 25£ a day etc, and he fucked off for 10 hours a day to see friends and left our dog crying (we could hear on camera after neighbour messaged asking if dog was alright)/had to get mother to intervene as we were abroad. Came home to a fruit bowl full of rotting fruit and fridge full of off milk etc.

Anyway we are expecting and he’s due to be god father as he is an extremely fun brother/uncle. We offered him 200-300£ to paint a wardrobe for the baby as he’s very talented artistically and his hobby is art related. He agreed. We set a deadline of 1 week for the work to be finished. 3 weeks later. 3 weeks of him lying (I can’t do it today as I’m working - turns out he was just at home chilling etc), showing up hours after he said he would, us waiting around for him….what he has painted is shockingly bad - he didn’t put the tape on properly and it needs totally clearing up/the non painted bits will need to be repainted to fix it. Anyway we basically said “if you don’t want to do this please just say as we had another person lined up”. No, he’s sorry but he’s not motivated. Ok, fine. So we have to get the other person to undo all his shitty work and the deadline was weeks ago and this has been a totally maddening experience.

Today he messaged asking for money for the time spent on it. On one hand - maybe he is depressed (although he is never too depressed to see his friends and do the things HE wants to do - dinners, lunches, cinema trips, gym etc) and he did spend some time painting. On the other hand he totally fucking let us down and it’s going to now cost us MORE money than the other person originally quoted as she’s not starting from scratch.

I don’t want to cause a huge family argument if we don’t pay him so do we just pay him something? What’s fair?

Why the hell is your family bankrolling this scrounging wanker? He’s fucking awful, and he’s like this because you all keep indulging him. Don’t pay him and don’t make him your child’s godparent, ffs, he isn’t even reliable enough to look after a dog or paint a wardrobe so it’s pretty obvious he’ll end up making promises to your child and repeatedly letting them down.

Just carry on then. Pay him. Keep asking him to do things. Have him as godparent showing your kids how to get away with doing fuck all in life and sponging off other people

This. It doesnt sound like you want to change things at all- you keep making pathetic excuses for him- "fun uncle" etc. You say you dont want to be his mummy but thats exactly what you are acting like. Paying him for painting a wardrobe FFS and looking after your dog (he behaved extremely cruelly there btw and that should serve as a huge red flag to you). Good grief, I am surprised you dont go round there to wipe his arse for him after he has a poo.

Carry on as you are and I can guarantee you this will come back to bite you on the arse once your parents pass. You will then be the one supporting this fully grown man, making his meals, doing his laundry, paying him his weekly pocket money all like a good mummy.

of course I’m totally lost in this family dynamic - I’ve been in it for 30 years and it’s become second nature to me. But obviously I don’t want to carry on as is which is why I’m asking for advice.

however people aren’t just all good/all bad and someone can be fun and loving whilst also being exceptionally selfish, lazy and irresponsible.

where am I making excuses for him? I’m explaining my decision re not just icing him from being godfather. I’m not going to pay him for the wardrobe. And I want to change the dynamic.

he can be an arsehole in many ways but also still be a fun uncle - the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

And that's fine OP - you just need to disengage to the point where you NEVER have him doing jobs for you. Well done on trying to make the change and escape this doom spiral - it isn't easy, especially as you clearly love him and want the best for him.

Re the original dilemma, say you can’t afford to pay him as you now have to pay someone else to first fix what he did and then start from scratch. One way to look at things is if it’s something you would never dream of doing to someone, why put up with it from someone else?

I will 100% never ever ever ask him to do anything for me again. That’s for sure! And I also will not be paying for meals out etc or anything else of the kind. It’s up to my family if they want to continue but this has been a huge wake up call for me.

Did you pay him for the time he “looked after” your dog? You know, the time he left it crying alone for 10 hours?

If you did, I think that’s kind of what people mean by making excuses for him. None of his actions have consequences do they. How would you feel if he babysat your kids (for money of course, he doesn’t do anything for free I assume) and then went out with his mates all evening, leaving them alone? That totally sounds like something he’d do

Take the family/ emotion link out of it and look at it in a business manner. You commissioned a job for a set price. This was accepted. The commission wasn't fulfilled.... therefore no payment!

It doesn’t really matter what your brother or DM want, they’ve created their own dynamic and there’s nothing you can do to change that.

What’s important is what your own immediate family want which for now is what your DH wants. If he doesn’t want to pay your brother then that’s your decision. If you’ve grown up as a people pleaser it’s hard to assert yourself.

Given how badly he took care of your dog, it was very foolish ask him to do the painting and asking him to be godfather! I wouldn't be paying him anything. He didn't finish the job you asked him to do.

But why wasn't the cruelty towards your pet a wake up call for you?

Painting a wardrobe badly is nothing compared to intentionally causing distress to a living creature.

I know you're saying things are more nuanced but it's NOT loving to only show love on your terms, however 'loving' those bits of his time seem.

Because the dog situation was like this:

he did a really awful job for a couple of days which became increasingly bad but which I could see he basically just didn’t “get” the issue eg “dogs just sleep”. He didn’t seem to think dog was that upset. Then it culminated on the 3/4 day where he was just out the whole fucking time, came home for 30 mins to walk him then went out again for hours on end and I was calling and calling he was ignoring it was awful. But everyone kicked off at him and for the remaining 7 days he was home every evening and taking dog for v long walks etc. so he got into “trouble” and made up for it and I chalked it up to him basically just being totally irresponsible and selfish. These comments are making me think I didn’t react enough about it though. I was so upset at the time but I was in another country and very little I could do / my mother had a key and went to the dog’s rescue in the end on the day in question.

I would never have trusted him to dog sit again but I thought he could paint a cupboard for 300£, yes.

But why wasn't the cruelty towards your pet a wake up call for you?

I am shocked by this too. He left your dog crying and alone whilst he went out partying and it’s the wardrobe being painted poorly that’s the last straw?!!!!

Don’t you care about your poor dog? He sounds like a vile creature., what a great role model for your kids 🙄

£300 to paint a wardrobe!! You could pay a professional less than that! And it wouldn’t look like a child had done it..

He will do exactly the same to your kid OP. It’s really important you choose another godparent.

someone needs to be the one to put a stop to your brothers behaviour - & if not you, then who. What will happen when your Mum is too elderly/infirm or has died - because surely even if he is distraught with the loss of his/your Mum he will also be upset at the loss of this accustomed lifestyle you are all enabling now.

My younger brother (56 yrs old) moved back to stay at our elderly mothers home just over a year ago with a relationship break down & so much of what has been said upthread really resonated with me - on Tuesday he has gone to stay at this (sort of) partners home with their children & his ex told our Mum she'd bring him back next week.
Oh no - thats a huge big fat No, so I have emailed her & explained the difficulties he has created here & so if their relationship doesnt work out they need to find other living situations for him (he hasnt worked since his mid 20's, hes now 56 - a whole other story). No return, do not pass GO.

So what I mean here is - someone has to break the cycle, it might not be the whole solution but its got to start somewhere. Because the result of what your brother is doing now may be a bigger problem for you down the track.
Good luck

It’s bizarre because you’re perpetuating this bollocks

fuck being fair. Fair stopped at his neglecting your dog!

don’t pay him, find another god parent and if your family so much as squeak in your direction, show them the photos, ask them what they’re going to pay for that kind of job and to deduct it from what you’re paying someone proper to do the job properly.

be straight with your family, tell them that they can carry on hobbling him with their ‘help’ but you’re not going to do so any more.

he put your dog at risk but took the money for it. He’s conned you and this cupboard is the last straw.

he won’t change if he’s not called out.

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor "I chalked it up to him basically just being totally irresponsible and selfish"

I think this is your way of trying to minimise it so you don't have to confront what a terrible thing he did. He only changed his behaviour because other people called him out on it.

So he was completely happy to treat an animal badly and get paid!

I know this is hard for you to hear, but this isn't a person you want in your life. Being a blood relative is irrelevant.

Also, you say it quite casually "chalked it up "

you have got so used to him being a total.... I don't know what the word is... he's been cruel to an animal and you are still in denial about him being a bad person because you're so used to him being around.

Ah OP it sucks but you’ve been trained that little x always deserves another chance and the family game is that nothing is really his fault. But surely even you can see that “being totally irresponsible and selfish” isn’t an excuse!!! It’s the opposite. Sorry you’re having to have these realisations about your brother but also about the rest of the family. How would your mum react for example if you were supposed to be doing something for your brother but then messed up really badly before demanding payment? I bet it’s a mindfuck even to imagine that.

Sorry if someone has asked this already, but why is he charging you £300 to paint a wardrobe for his niece, if he's such a great uncle?

My uncle did loads of DIY for my parents when I was growing up, and never asked for a penny. We did stuff for him, like dog/babysitting for free. That's what families do - not charge each other and then do a shit job.

Don't let it get to the point where it causes problems between you and your husband.