Is this going to cause a massive family rift?

[Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor]

Sorry for length of this -

I have an older brother who is a little bit of a moocher - I’ve posted about him before under a different name. He has had a great education and many opportunities in life and has ended up, in his mid 30s, with no money and financially dependent on my mother. He never pays for himself and works a couple of hours a day, and that’s it. He is always feeling sorry for himself due to having no money, and therefore my mother/other siblings bank roll him as they worry he is depressed. I think he’s just playing on their emotions/using them (but I can’t be sure of this).

He is always asking us if he can do odd jobs for cash. We let him dog sit last year whilst we were away - fridge full of food for him at ours, 25£ a day etc, and he fucked off for 10 hours a day to see friends and left our dog crying (we could hear on camera after neighbour messaged asking if dog was alright)/had to get mother to intervene as we were abroad. Came home to a fruit bowl full of rotting fruit and fridge full of off milk etc.

Anyway we are expecting and he’s due to be god father as he is an extremely fun brother/uncle. We offered him 200-300£ to paint a wardrobe for the baby as he’s very talented artistically and his hobby is art related. He agreed. We set a deadline of 1 week for the work to be finished. 3 weeks later. 3 weeks of him lying (I can’t do it today as I’m working - turns out he was just at home chilling etc), showing up hours after he said he would, us waiting around for him….what he has painted is shockingly bad - he didn’t put the tape on properly and it needs totally clearing up/the non painted bits will need to be repainted to fix it. Anyway we basically said “if you don’t want to do this please just say as we had another person lined up”. No, he’s sorry but he’s not motivated. Ok, fine. So we have to get the other person to undo all his shitty work and the deadline was weeks ago and this has been a totally maddening experience.

Today he messaged asking for money for the time spent on it. On one hand - maybe he is depressed (although he is never too depressed to see his friends and do the things HE wants to do - dinners, lunches, cinema trips, gym etc) and he did spend some time painting. On the other hand he totally fucking let us down and it’s going to now cost us MORE money than the other person originally quoted as she’s not starting from scratch.

I don’t want to cause a huge family argument if we don’t pay him so do we just pay him something? What’s fair?

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor On the issue of the wardrobe, you don't pay for a terrible job, you wouldn't pay a professional for that work. You'd pay if they did it properly.

As a general point, I know two people who got stuck with brothers like this after their parents died and it's been hell. You infantilising him will come back to bite you.

You probably won't read this next bit...
Sorry to bring personal stuff into this

I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety decades ago, when it was something to hide and be ashamed of.

It is people like him who make it look like a joke. These piss takers give the rest of us a bad name, when we are actually fully capable of doing what we said we would do - and very careful of overcommitting because we know what our limits are.

I am astonished that you want him to be a godparent. He's never even worked?!

He has a large 2 bedroom flat all to himself, above my mother’s. She owns it. He pays a very small token amount of rent and barely pays it all. Last month he paid 1/4 of it. She obviously likes having him as her tenant, despite lack of money, as opposed to having a stranger there.

Say what you'd say to someone you'd asked to do a job then it had been done poorly.

You wouldn't allow the piss to be taken out of you by a hired labourer - don't have it from him.

Teaching him a lesson would be worth more to him than a bit of cash, OP.

'I'm sorry but we aren't in a position to give you anything as it's now costing so much more to put right. Please don't accept paid work from us again if you are not going to do it properly'.

And if Mum starts calling, ask her to support her pregnant child who her brother is taking the piss out of instead of always jumping to his defence!

HE caused this! It is not your job to suck it up or make it right.

He has worked previously. He has actually done quite well at jobs but then he basically decides he doesn’t like the job anymore “it’s boring” “it’s hard” and sacks it off to do nothing or go travelling etc 🤷🏻‍♀️

im sorry about your struggles x

Exactly what people are saying.

He's rotting, rather than flourishing.

And NOT due to depression.

It sounds like there's some serious co-dependency going on with Mum.

If anyone did that to my dogs I would never see or speak to them again. What a POS!

I’d give him £10/20 to shut everyone up and never offer to pay him for anything ever again.

Honestly someone has to be the first to cut the apron strings and it might as well be you, I suspect you don’t want to as he’s the “favourite” and you’ll be lambasted by everyone or at least your mum for being “cruel” to poor little Damian. That’s crap for you that that’s the family dynamic but as everyone has said, his family paying him for odd jobs is not a sustainable way forward for him. You’ll have to be brave and make a stand. Once one person has changed their behaviour often others change theirs too - it’s a bit of a dance isn’t it.

Unlike most though I’d def keep him as godfather, if he’s kind to the kids and you all love him that’s a good enough reason. Presumably the kids have a father and you to look up to, they don’t need Uncle Dickhead to be a pillar of society in order to get a clue about how to live life. I have a similarly useless type as a godfather equivalent and I learnt to laugh at his fecklessness pretty early in life! Didn’t grow up thinking I should emulate him, far from it.

"He did say 2D would be different and obviously we told him we understood and he should just do his best"

He did tell you he had doubts about his skills.

He paints little models. Not flat furniture.

You agreed to pay no matter what.

Leaving aside your gripes about his other issues, for this you need to pay him.

Take lots of photos of how shit it is, send them to him and ask him how much he thinks is fair to pay someone for doing this.

If your mum feels that strongly then let her pay!

If it was anyone else, you probably wouldn't pay for that. Money in exchange for a service... that wasn't provided. He doesn't get paid for it anyway, he didn't complete the task!

He will continue to be this way, until he has a reason to stop. Your family aren't giving him a reason to stop! If they think he's suffering with his mental health, they need to support him to get help. Enabling and supporting isn't the same thing!

Tbf he did also do a lot of work painting boats as well which is very similar to furniture painting

I agree what you’re saying re his doubts but those were regarding the flowers/detailed aspects, which he’s done 5% of

I wouldn’t pay him anything.
I totally understand how debilitating depression can be. But no one is doing him any favours pandering to him. Sometimes you need life (or your loved ones!) to kick you up the bum. Lovingly, give him that kick that no one else seems able to xx

This is how I feel exactly re the godfather thing - appreciate someone getting it. The low token amount is something to think about.

OP It sounds like you're the family mother, not your own mum. They're wanting you to put up and shut up, and to let them crack on being irresponsible and selfish. If it inconveniences you or indeed costs you money it doesn't matter because apparently their feelings matter more.

I have recognised myself being put in this role by family and have had to work hard with it. Some situations I have known what is expected of me (eg apologising even though I did nothing wrong, just to keep peace) but I have resisted it. It feels very uncomfortable when you're used to fulfilling a role you suddenly stop playing. People do react to this - it's unusual and upsets the status quo. But you get the satisfaction of living by new values of self respect where no, they are not more important than you.

Try it, see what happens! Let them react. Not your problem. Not anymore. Good luck!

Don't pay him. Tell him why.

Do you understand the role of a godparent? He is supposed to be a spiritual/Christian role model for your child. He can be "fun uncle" without being a godparent.

a very fun, sweet uncle and fantastic with children

He may be the above, but he neglected your dog, failed to do an halfway decent job for your unborn child, scrounges off his family (whose goodwill and poor boundaries he manipulates).

He's a piss taking cunt and all your family enable him.

I’m sorry for your experiences, and well done for breaking the cycle!!

Oh God this is so embarrassing 🙄🤦‍♀️

My SIL is a bit like this, barely worked a day in her life and quit her job because, I shit you not "they kept asking me to do stuff"
nearly 40 years old 🤣🤣

Your DH is absolutely right. He needs to be shown he can’t take the piss out of you. Not in a million years should you pay double because he couldn’t be arsed to do it properly. Don’t listen to your mum’s emotional blackmail.

Why the heck wouldnt he paint it for you for free? He is going to be the godfather to this LO, I would have expected him to want to do something nice for his future godchild. The cheek of him expecting to be paid at all, and then doing such a shoddy job. Your DH is right here.

Yeah, MH is never that convenient. He is a CF. If it has to be fixed, dont pay. You would not pay a tradesman in this situation. Or give him a token amount if you absolutely cannot give him nothing - maybe deduct what it costs to fix his shitty work.

Having said that, I mentioned it as I think it does make it even more upsetting that he’s just “not motivated” to have done this. It would have been easy money for him and, as a PP said, many uncles would have just done it for free.

You should point this out to him when you respond. “The motivation to complete the job was £300, DB. You told us you weren’t motivated by that.”

Why should you have to pay twice for work he couldn’t be bothered to do?

I know you’ve said you aren’t reconsidering him being godfather. But I would look at the wardrobe (and your poor dog) as a symbol of how much effort he will be putting into this role he apparently cares so much about. Personally, I’d revoke the offer. “Sorry, DB. I know I promised I’d make you godfather… but I just wasn’t motivated enough.”

Please link the swimming trunks story...