Is this going to cause a massive family rift?

[Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor]

Sorry for length of this -

I have an older brother who is a little bit of a moocher - I’ve posted about him before under a different name. He has had a great education and many opportunities in life and has ended up, in his mid 30s, with no money and financially dependent on my mother. He never pays for himself and works a couple of hours a day, and that’s it. He is always feeling sorry for himself due to having no money, and therefore my mother/other siblings bank roll him as they worry he is depressed. I think he’s just playing on their emotions/using them (but I can’t be sure of this).

He is always asking us if he can do odd jobs for cash. We let him dog sit last year whilst we were away - fridge full of food for him at ours, 25£ a day etc, and he fucked off for 10 hours a day to see friends and left our dog crying (we could hear on camera after neighbour messaged asking if dog was alright)/had to get mother to intervene as we were abroad. Came home to a fruit bowl full of rotting fruit and fridge full of off milk etc.

Anyway we are expecting and he’s due to be god father as he is an extremely fun brother/uncle. We offered him 200-300£ to paint a wardrobe for the baby as he’s very talented artistically and his hobby is art related. He agreed. We set a deadline of 1 week for the work to be finished. 3 weeks later. 3 weeks of him lying (I can’t do it today as I’m working - turns out he was just at home chilling etc), showing up hours after he said he would, us waiting around for him….what he has painted is shockingly bad - he didn’t put the tape on properly and it needs totally clearing up/the non painted bits will need to be repainted to fix it. Anyway we basically said “if you don’t want to do this please just say as we had another person lined up”. No, he’s sorry but he’s not motivated. Ok, fine. So we have to get the other person to undo all his shitty work and the deadline was weeks ago and this has been a totally maddening experience.

Today he messaged asking for money for the time spent on it. On one hand - maybe he is depressed (although he is never too depressed to see his friends and do the things HE wants to do - dinners, lunches, cinema trips, gym etc) and he did spend some time painting. On the other hand he totally fucking let us down and it’s going to now cost us MORE money than the other person originally quoted as she’s not starting from scratch.

I don’t want to cause a huge family argument if we don’t pay him so do we just pay him something? What’s fair?

Just reread my comment, last sentence should probably make clear that you and DH are absolutely fantastic parents. So keep concentrating on giving your children a stable upcoming, you’re already doing a great job!

Thank you x

It's probably very relevant to your brother, even if you have told him before. Certainly gives some idea why he is that way with you.

I agree with this. I do also think that despite being told this 100 x and knowing it to be true - DH and my brother went to private schools and had the same educational advantages (and my
Older brother took advantage of them where he didn’t) - i suspect to excuse everything, my mother and DB tell themselves a bit of a lie re my husband. I said a few pages back he has often made comments re “luckiness” and “if I won the lottery”, and I have set him
straight regarding DH working 100 hour weeks etc.

but he mooches a lot of my older brother too, who he knows to be self made and can’t really lie to himself about.

*off

As it's costing you more to undo his work and he didn't finish it I wouldn't be paying him family or not. He has to have consequences to his actions at some point as it doesn't sound like he has had many so far in life, he sounds like he is just cruising along while everyone carries him.

And here’s me thinking, since he is to be godfather, wouldn’t it have been a lovely gesture to actually do it free of charge as a gift , since he clearly won’t have the money to lavish her with nice gifts like a lot of godparents do for their godchildren. He could have made it lovely and said he wanted the baby to have something special from him and you could have said to her , your Godfather did that for you. He is already letting her down big time . Re think him being god parent , he will probably start begging off her too!

No but he might not know/believe that.

Even so you are paying an artist to paint flowers on a child's wardrobe.

That's out of the range of a lot of us!

Well yes, I did say a few pages back DH does very well financially and I do think there will be some jealousy relating to that/me not having to work. Absolutely.

and part of all of this is me feeling guilty because he doesn’t have what we have. That’s why I always feel mean/like helping him out etc.

and part of all of this is me feeling guilty because he doesn’t have what we have. That’s why I always feel mean/like helping him out etc.

Well it's nice to help out as & when you can of course.

I don't know why you feel guilty though.

It sounds as if he has had opportunities & not used them.

And why doesnt he have what you have?

Because you worked for it and he didnt.

Its not your fault that he hasnt succeeded in life, its his. You need to do some research into FOG....fear, obligation, guilt. Seems like you really are suffering with this.

If he was about to be godfather to an unborn baby, I’d honest think this is something he would do out of the kindness of his own heart. £300! 😳

but he mooches a lot of my older brother too, who he knows to be self made and can’t really lie to himself about.

He will be finding a way to spin it. People are amazingly good at twisting things. My oldest sister has a lifelong narrative about being poor. She has lots of money for things she wants, like an expensive hobby, or streaming packages. But will claim to be too poor to buy a cup of coffee for you if you give her a lift and stop somewhere, or not want to bring/contribute anything to a family meal, and will claim poverty. She has been known to say 'they can afford it' when challenged about taking financial advantage of others. I had a massive go at her last year, after she pulled a similar stunt just after I took on another days worth of work so I could pay my mortgage (making it a 6 day work week). Now she is not able to sponge off me as easily, she is sulky and distant with me. So I bet your brother has a whole story in his head about why it is ok for him to do this.

Wow; is your sister single?! She sounds like the female version of my brother! Totally agree re story in his head.

Thank you - and I hope you feel able to ask the question "What about me?", and to put your own needs first without guilt. When you've been brought up not to allow yourself to have needs it takes a while, but I'd highly recommend practising it!

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor if you can more than afford it ask him what he thinks is a fair price and explain you've had to pay xxx on getting it done. What he responds will be interesting. Honestly, I'd pay him, chalk it up to experience and NEVER hire him again. No arguments, no awkwardness. I'd take it as a fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. He sounds like someone you love and I don't think you'd be wrong to call him out and refuse to pay him but is there going to be any satisfaction in telling him about himself. He needs to stand on his own two feet and from now on you should let him x

Sorry but as someone with a disability myself - if you can't do something you say no. If you start doing something and find it's too much mentally, or too hard to complete, you say "really sorry I can't manage this" or whatever. It's fine not to do be able to manage something physically or mentally (or both), but to do it badly and pretend it's ok is using your disability as an excuse to be a lazy, uncaring person. This is being unkind and hurting other because YOU WANT to, nothing to do with disability.

Surprise surprise, stopping drinking and “dry April” lasted a week. Told my older brother today, who took him out drinking, that he can be the one to house and support him when my mother dies and he burns through his inheritance - it won’t be me! We had a family lunch yesterday and older brother told me there was an “atmosphere” with DB and me. Yes, there is, because I am hurt and disappointed.

also @Blondebrunette1 i can “more than afford” to do lots of things with DB. Buy him things, suck up payments for the sake of being kind etc. but that’s exactly the problem- he knows I can and so he thinks I should. I think it’s at the point where I don’t feel comfortable. DH says that regarding money “if you don’t feel comfortable about it; it’s because it’s not right”. None of this is right anymore and it’s time to take a stand!

thanks everyone for the advice.

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor

Congratulations! You have hit the point where you realize the truth.

Having money does NOT mean you are responsible to raise a grown man or play into his game of "poor me".

It's long past time for your NVDB to start adulting. But, he refuses. The best thing you can do is stop enabling him. If your other brother decides to continue babying him as if he is a child, that's his row to hoe, not yours.

Having a backbone is not always easy, but sometimes it's truly needed and necessary. I'm glad your DH backs you up. He sounds like a keeper!

I think your brother must feel like you and your older brother have been lucky in life and he hasn’t. In a lot of ways, you have … you’ve met, fell in love with and married a wonderful man who is hard working, supportive and a great father. You have the option to work or not work, the money to live very comfortably either way, with or without domestic help. I’m sure (like most of us!) he would love to be in that position but what most of us understand is very few people are “lucky”, you generally have to make your own luck and success in life and relationships - something you, your DH and older brother have done. I do understand it must be hard for him to have not found his way in life and found the success he obviously wants but it’s not up to you to provide it. You can’t change your mother’s behavior or attitude but it should certainly not be up to you to support him if and when that ends.

That said, I do think you should try to avoid a family rift if you can. Life is too short and you have said in previous posts that you love him, get on well with him etc. I think you need to change your attitude and behavior towards him and let your mother and brother do what they feel comfortable with. You seem to find your relationship with him hardest when you have expectations of him, ie. Painting, dog sitting or helping with the children, so make sure in future, you do not offer to pay him for any job or service where he may disappoint you and do not pay for him out of obligation. He clearly doesn’t have the work ethic that you do. In future if you do decide to buy him a meal or a drink or anything at all, do it because you are in a privileged position and can and because he’s your brother, he’s fun, you love him and you want to spend time with him regardless of his faults. Do it sparingly and with absolutely no expectations in return. Hopefully at some point he will realize that he needs to figure out his own way without relying financially on his family.

You are 100% right about expectations and now I’m fairly sure I know who you are as well 😀 I will manage my expectations and stop creating situations where he can disappoint. As you say, I do love him very much and he has many decent qualities so I definitely don’t want him to damage the relationship - just alter it to be healthier for both of us. Thank you!

Everyone here seems so sorry for your brother and finding excuses for him sponging off everyone and getting paid for jobs he doesn't/can't do. Def don't pay for the painting and ask for a refund on the dog sitting. BTW, did you talk to him about abusing your dog?

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor

DH says that regarding money “if you don’t feel comfortable about it; it’s because it’s not right”.

Your husband is right - and this works in so many other scenarios. 🌹

Aaaaand he has chased us for the money this morning

what'd you say OP?????