Is this going to cause a massive family rift?

[Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor]

Sorry for length of this -

I have an older brother who is a little bit of a moocher - I’ve posted about him before under a different name. He has had a great education and many opportunities in life and has ended up, in his mid 30s, with no money and financially dependent on my mother. He never pays for himself and works a couple of hours a day, and that’s it. He is always feeling sorry for himself due to having no money, and therefore my mother/other siblings bank roll him as they worry he is depressed. I think he’s just playing on their emotions/using them (but I can’t be sure of this).

He is always asking us if he can do odd jobs for cash. We let him dog sit last year whilst we were away - fridge full of food for him at ours, 25£ a day etc, and he fucked off for 10 hours a day to see friends and left our dog crying (we could hear on camera after neighbour messaged asking if dog was alright)/had to get mother to intervene as we were abroad. Came home to a fruit bowl full of rotting fruit and fridge full of off milk etc.

Anyway we are expecting and he’s due to be god father as he is an extremely fun brother/uncle. We offered him 200-300£ to paint a wardrobe for the baby as he’s very talented artistically and his hobby is art related. He agreed. We set a deadline of 1 week for the work to be finished. 3 weeks later. 3 weeks of him lying (I can’t do it today as I’m working - turns out he was just at home chilling etc), showing up hours after he said he would, us waiting around for him….what he has painted is shockingly bad - he didn’t put the tape on properly and it needs totally clearing up/the non painted bits will need to be repainted to fix it. Anyway we basically said “if you don’t want to do this please just say as we had another person lined up”. No, he’s sorry but he’s not motivated. Ok, fine. So we have to get the other person to undo all his shitty work and the deadline was weeks ago and this has been a totally maddening experience.

Today he messaged asking for money for the time spent on it. On one hand - maybe he is depressed (although he is never too depressed to see his friends and do the things HE wants to do - dinners, lunches, cinema trips, gym etc) and he did spend some time painting. On the other hand he totally fucking let us down and it’s going to now cost us MORE money than the other person originally quoted as she’s not starting from scratch.

I don’t want to cause a huge family argument if we don’t pay him so do we just pay him something? What’s fair?

He could be depressed or anything mentioned but until he looks into it I don't think people should treat him as if he has those things tbh.

I suppose as long as he is enabled there's no incentive for him to look at getting help for himself.

I think that we are more aware of depression/mental illness & I do think that some people "jump on the bandwagon".

I also think that the other extreme of "snap out of it/go for a walk" doesn't help either.

I know it’s just a wardrobe but this was supposed to be a really sweet thing for my daughter. Now it actually just annoys me. Imagine having negative feelings towards a piece of furniture I have properly lost the plot 🤣

My kids don't even have godparents so I don't see the big deal in him being one. No way would I want him being godparent, he sounds like a complete asshole, I wouldn't be speaking to him by this point.

It's about what it represents though.

It also shows just how little he cares, how much he will piss you about & that he he is still selfish enough to ask for money.

Actually this all reminded me of the time last year he was supposed to come and see the children and he didn’t, and because he had let us down a few times “just stop telling them I’m coming”, I was really angry so he said he had a sickness bug. Then proceeded to post a photo of his row (on his rowing machine) on instagram. Literally showed the time of the row etc. was he too “depressed” to see my children but fine to do a row?

he’s such a clown. And yes, it would have been so lovely to look at the wardrobe and be like “aw, her uncle did that”. Now it’s just this huge white elephant of regret and extra expense and effort and reminds me he cba at all. Maybe everyone is right re godparent thing. Just not sure how I would actually be able to extricate without causing WW3.

WW3 would eventually blow over though, and you might come out the other side with a better relationship with everyone. As it stands, he's walking all over everybody and nothing will change until someone starts taking a stand and says no more.

He's obviously a constant source of stress in your life, and none of you are helping his 'depression' by indulging him.

Personally, I'd start putting myself and my own feelings first, and he can fall in line or fuck off. I'm willing to bet there'd be a period where he was all woe is me, and your parents would try and build bridges while blaming you, and then, eventually, they'd have a word with him about his part in all this and you two would meet in the middle and make up. All you have to do is ride out the storm.

Surely as the Godfather he would paint the wardrobe for free as a gift to his Godchild?

That paint job is beyond awful. I wouldn't pay him a penny. Nada.

Maybe everyone is right re godparent thing. Just not sure how I would actually be able to extricate without causing WW3.
Is there any preparation that he has to do to be a Godparent; any courses that the church runs? Any chance that he will rule himself out by non-attendance?

I think you have to take a pragmatic view. Think "we are where we are" and all that. On the payment front do as little as possible so (a) hide behind your DH and say that he won't countenance payment (b) do nothing and force DBro to ask or (c) make a partial payment for partial work. Basically, do the minimum you can get away with.
On the godfather front, it doesn't really matter either way. As you say, the other DC already have non-ideal godparents so one more doesn't matter.

The main thing is what you do going forward. Stand firm and stop enabling him. Let others do that, if they want, but you steer well clear. Put DH & DC ahead of DBro & mum.

I posted earlier on this thread and I've had an idea (can't be sure it hasn't already been suggested but apologies if it has).
You seem set on having him as a godfather to your kids.
Well then have a conversation about your expectations of what a godfather is to you, and what you expect him to do. I realise that you said you have legal guardians set up if something was to happen to you so it's not about that bit. It's about him having a presence in the life of the kid he is to be godfather to.
Talk to him. If he sees the role as something ceremonial and nothing more, so he's there at the baptismal font and says he's godfather to X and then is about as present in their lives and as useful to them as a chocolate fire guard, then you have no issues in saying to him that this is not likely to work out and you no longer want him to be godfather. If he says that he will be present in their lives (not with gifts or whatever but actually involved in their lives) then give him a shot.
Throughout the life of the kid you want him to be godfather to, he will still be the child's uncle. That is without dispute and he can still be fun uncle to the child.

As for the wardrobe, I'd get all the costs lined up and post on the family WhatsApp that the "work" he did cost you X amount to fix and while you're not looking for him or anyone else in the family to pay for fixing his mediocre painting skills, you are making it very clear that if he had done the job right the first time, or declined to do the work in the first place, you wouldn't be in this position and you will not be paying him for a job he didn't do properly and you are no longer going to be answering any further discussion about the matter. It's done and you're done with it too.

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor , I've been in therapy for 2+ years due to my covertly narcissistic "mother". Her behaviour, and that of my overtly narc sibling, was excused by people for decades. I was told "they didn't mean it", "that's just how they are", "every family has someone like that", "don't upset them" etc., etc.

Through therapy, I've realised that one question I never got to ask was "What about me?". When my narc "mother" eventually pushed me too far, her entire family but one person walked away with her. So you could be right about WW3. But if your family are prepared to tell you that you don't matter, should you have a relationship with them at all? Or expose your children to this toxicity?

What about you? Why do they get to walk all over you while your brother is on a pedestal?

Thank you for this.

I'm really sorry to hear about your mother - and seriously well done for going to therapy and finding the strength to care about yourself xx sounds like a great outcome for you

I have been skipping answers to just your replies, so I apologise if this has already been mentioned.I am very interested in how you feel about your family long term. Your brother has
been acting like a leech for years and led by your
mother you've all allowed it. Your mother like the rest of us will not be getting any younger so what happens to your brother years down the line. When he's on his own. Are you the one going to be paying his bills, so he can lead the life you can't afford? I think you have much bigger problems than paying for a badly painted wardrobe and disastrous dog sitting. I think the time has come for you to pull up your big girl pants and refuse to go along with this anymore

I know everyone is advising you to circumvent your mum while you try to resolve the issue with your brother, but I don't see how that will work?

As long as she's enabling him, she will expect everyone else to. It's her actions that have caused this issue. Until she admits it has to stop, there'll be no harmonious family relations. You all need to be on the same page.

I also think there are perhaps millions of functioning people with depression in the UK. If he is depressed, he can get medication (if not counselling right away). But real depression means no going out, avoiding your friends, no real interest in anything. He also doesn't sound like he has anxiety to me.

In the real world people don't get paid for a bad job. They get a shit Google review. I don't think he feels any real motivation to do a good job. It's just performative, he probably thinks you're all just looking for nice excuses to give him money. If he has nay common sense, he must think your expectations must be really low anyway, paying an amateur £300 to paint a wardrobe when a professional would do it for a lot less.

It's a horrible situation. Money and families do not mix.

I am about 98% sure that I know you. If you are who I think you are, this definitely all stems from your mother and probably also difficult relationship with your father. Your mother has always put far too much emphasis on money and lifestyle and bought her children up like that. This has made your brother like he is. He is probably very jealous of your “success”, you married the son of a multi millionaire and are set up for life without ever needing to have worked for it .. exactly what your mother hoped for you. It’s also why he expects you to pay for him and I’m sure he has your mother in his ear saying that you should help him out.

Don’t pay him for the wardrobe and don’t offer to pay for things for him again. Concentrate on giving your kids a more stable upbringing than you or DH had.

Omg that's so cringey that she assigned that to herself 😂

I would pay him 50 pounds just to keep the peace and would then step WAY back from all of them.

But I would have stepped way back when he left your poor dog crying on his own for 10 hours - how bad did it have to be that a neighbour called you? your dog probably didn't have water to drink. How you can think a wardrobe is the last straw when he treated an animal like this is beyond me.

How enriching is your relationship with your mother and brothers? It doesn't sound much fun to me. you don't have to go no-contact but you can certainly cut way back on any involvement.

I couldn't make a man who was cruel to a dog a godparent to my child but that's your decision.

How to sort out the Godparent issue.

Send out invites. Just to your mother, brother and anyone else who thinks that they have a right to a say.

"X's baptism is on X at X at X. We dont expect gifts of course, but if you would like to send something please direct it to their Godparents A, B and C"

Then wait for the inevitable and just ignore. Yeah its cowardly but ffs, you are doing what they would do!

None of you are helping him, you are enabling him.

Don’t pay him.

I just did want to respond to this by saying that it’s irrelevant who my DH’s father is, as he takes (and doesn’t want/would never take) any money from him. His money is his own and he works extremely hard for it.

I get that my family may not understand that, but I have explained it multiple times to them!

curious who you are though 🤣

Sorry above should say he doesn’t take/doesn’t want!

Btw whether or not you know me, you’re spot on re my mother, yes.

you married the son of a multi millionaire and are set up for life

Well that would explain why he is always wanting to do stuff for cash!

we don’t take any money from
DH father so it’s irrelevant!

Please don't pay him!! He doesn't deserve it and it would rightfully stick in your throat.
Honestly, I don't know how you all put up with him.

Tell him to grow up and get a job.