Is this going to cause a massive family rift?

[Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor]

Sorry for length of this -

I have an older brother who is a little bit of a moocher - I’ve posted about him before under a different name. He has had a great education and many opportunities in life and has ended up, in his mid 30s, with no money and financially dependent on my mother. He never pays for himself and works a couple of hours a day, and that’s it. He is always feeling sorry for himself due to having no money, and therefore my mother/other siblings bank roll him as they worry he is depressed. I think he’s just playing on their emotions/using them (but I can’t be sure of this).

He is always asking us if he can do odd jobs for cash. We let him dog sit last year whilst we were away - fridge full of food for him at ours, 25£ a day etc, and he fucked off for 10 hours a day to see friends and left our dog crying (we could hear on camera after neighbour messaged asking if dog was alright)/had to get mother to intervene as we were abroad. Came home to a fruit bowl full of rotting fruit and fridge full of off milk etc.

Anyway we are expecting and he’s due to be god father as he is an extremely fun brother/uncle. We offered him 200-300£ to paint a wardrobe for the baby as he’s very talented artistically and his hobby is art related. He agreed. We set a deadline of 1 week for the work to be finished. 3 weeks later. 3 weeks of him lying (I can’t do it today as I’m working - turns out he was just at home chilling etc), showing up hours after he said he would, us waiting around for him….what he has painted is shockingly bad - he didn’t put the tape on properly and it needs totally clearing up/the non painted bits will need to be repainted to fix it. Anyway we basically said “if you don’t want to do this please just say as we had another person lined up”. No, he’s sorry but he’s not motivated. Ok, fine. So we have to get the other person to undo all his shitty work and the deadline was weeks ago and this has been a totally maddening experience.

Today he messaged asking for money for the time spent on it. On one hand - maybe he is depressed (although he is never too depressed to see his friends and do the things HE wants to do - dinners, lunches, cinema trips, gym etc) and he did spend some time painting. On the other hand he totally fucking let us down and it’s going to now cost us MORE money than the other person originally quoted as she’s not starting from scratch.

I don’t want to cause a huge family argument if we don’t pay him so do we just pay him something? What’s fair?

Just paint it white

end of story

And this dud is going to be the new baby's godfather! He will be charging them for every little thing he ever does for her.

The mother and SIB are quite the "couple" and the only family members they put first is the two of them.

It's interesting reading this, I have a friend with this kind of dynamic in the family. They have two older daughters and then a son, and I think to start with the son was just a bit 'average' compared to his sisters who were doing really 'well' eg they got good degrees at uni, have good jobs, quite high earning, live with partners (and I suppose significantly the parents see these all as signs of success in life) and the son just didn't 'succeed' to the same extent, he dropped out of uni in the end I think, hasn't really worked beyond minimum wage type jobs, is still single in his 40s, all of which should have been absolutely no big deal, and there's nothing wrong with any of it, but I think they just couldn't accept that he was actually quite mediocre. So they've all bought into this narrative where he's actually a bit of a wounded genius/ damaged artist, rather than face the fact that actually there's nothing wrong with him, he's just not very good at anything.

It’s extremely easy for people to say “don’t let him be the godfather”. At this point, if I hadn’t already told him he could, I wouldn’t let him be. No. But again we have already asked him and it would be absolutely horrendous and the fallout would be mental to “un-ask” him. I don’t think many people would actually do that in real life.

each of my other children has a bit of a useless godparent. They didn’t start off that way but people move or have their own families and situations and priorities change. My children have responsible named guardians In our wills so it’s not such a big deal as some people are making out. It’s not ideal, and I can be clear with him/my family that I’m upset he is the godfather given this, but I certainly can’t and won’t just dump him because it’s going, to my mind, too far.

we are not paying him though.

Dynamic growing up was extremely similar. Older brother was exceptionally smart, handsome and popular. This brother was bullied quite a lot and didn’t do well in school - tbf to him my father was an abusive cunt and he had a very bad time, he was the most picked on. My father left when he was 9 and made very little effort to see any of us and was horrible when we did. Things just fell apart for brother. He ended up being expelled from school (my mother sacrificed a lot to send us to private school) for non attendance (he hid his uniform
in a remote control car bag to avoid having to go in) in A Level year and my mother had to beg school to let him sit them. He managed to get into a decent uni somehow, dicked around for a year doing drugs whilst my mother bailed him out and paid for accommodation etc, then dropped out.

it’s just been a massively slippery slope and I see how it happened but, as everyone says, this isn’t helping him. None of this is helping him. It’s just stunting him.

IMO Godfather status is neither here nor there. Maybe different for other families but IME it is a largely ceremonial title with no more actual responsibilities or duties - or privileges - than being an uncle anyway. Remember their birthdays, take an interest. Not sure why anyone would be outraged by feckless bro having the label.

It also makes it clear that your refusal to pay for a job not done is not personal.

Thank you - this is also how I feel. I am not sure if people on MN genuinely take it extremely seriously or just want to use it as a stick to beat me with because the OP always has to be somehow in the wrong on here.

regardless there has been some absolutely amazing support and advice on this thread and I really appreciate it

He's just a spoilt entitled brat and I would never have considered him decent godfather material.

I have to tell you I know very few men I would consider decent godfather material! He’s at least present - neither DH or I have present fathers and all of DH friends are exceptionally immature and not around, and I don’t have any male friends 🤷🏻‍♀️

Well it's just a token gesture then, and a bonus if he steps up and takes the role seriously.

But don't get into any more financial or moral expectation situations with him.

OP you don't have to justify your decision on who your child's godfather is going to be. It's a deeply personal choice.

No need to engage further with anyone on Mumsnet about it. Sure, people are obviously free to give their opinion. As you are free to ignore 😉

I have no idea why people are fixating on the Godparent thing?!

Are they literally saying that because he's a bit useless and takes the piss with Mum/siblings that he can only be a shit Uncle?

You've said about 800 times that he would never have responsibility for the kids!!

Agreed re: the godfather thing - it's purely ceremonial. Your younger brother's issue is that he knows that whatever he does and however he behaves, he can play the baby and have a safety net with mummy (who also railroads the rest of the family into doing likewise). I can see where your mum is coming from - everyone needed protection from your father in the past - but she does need to be persuaded that it's time to let go. Stunting him won't do him any favours in the long run; she won't be around forever and I doubt you and elder DB will be willing to fund grifter brother forever.

Because you're all part of the same family. Because he's charming and engaging and has a knack of making the family financially and emotionally bail him out. Because you agreed to pay him in the initial verbal contract.
You've now learned that he won't come through for you and he's not as talented or industrious as you hoped - and trusting him with that job was a mistake.
However, that was your mistake.
Don't grandstand. Don't cause rifts in the family, where people can take sides.
Save yourself a lot of future money, by NEVER engaging again in paying him for anything.
Just roll your eyes on future occasions, when wider family encourage you to support him, and say "We've learned!"
And let's face it, you only made him godparent because he charmed you in some way. He wouldn't have got away with half of his feckless behaviour, if he wasn't capable of charming people.
Or look at it another way - if you and him stood in the middle of a room with just all the family around you voting on whether you should pay him, who would win the vote?
Just set your future boundaries with him.
And rely more sensibly on other family members for your child.

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor my brother sounds similar to yours and after years of us all ‘enabling’ him (which we didn’t realise we were doing) we all took a step back and tbh it was the best thing we could have done.

They have to learn to take responsibility and not constantly be bailed out.

I think you have to forget about paying him and use a bit of tough love.

But I think I’ve had enough. If I stood up in a room and asked my family to vote, they would choose him. He’s done something which has let me down and they will still take his side, treat him like the victim.

which motivates me all the more to just say no! I mean really it’s DH saying no, but I could talk him round if I wanted to. I just don’t. I think it’s totally reasonable to say “you didn’t finish the job/what you’ve done it shit/I wanted this done several weeks ago and this has delayed it even further”.

all this has done is serve to remind me why I need boundaries in place with my mother, and remind me to focus on my husband and children and not get sucked into my family’s fucked up dynamic!

I think the issue is my mother will never take a step back - I’m glad for your brother though x

Listen, my darling, darling girl.

I understand how let down you feel. I also realise how angry you are.

But get your priorities in order.

Your chosen godparent is never going to be anything other than a scumbag. However charming he is. If you can get out of making him godparent - huge success for you.

You have a couple of issues.

Cost of painting wardrobe - Can you suck up the cost? Because if you're not stupid, that's the last bill you ever pay for brother. Whatever future support claims come your way, you can say your child's wardrobe was the last straw.

Because your brother has a knack of keep engaging people, new stories, new situations, so why not just step back with this one and say "We're out. We no longer accept responsibility for brother. We're 100% focussed on new baby"

If you can't cut your brother off with this one, you're never going to.

But second issue.

You really shouldn't make him a godparent.

If you can use this issue as a means to sever him as godarent - so much the better.

I'd still pay him - to avoid you being described as too cheap or hard up to pay him and that's the reason you didn't pay him.

But also sever his godparent role at the exact same time.

He's hard up for money, he probably won't think twice about it.

That's the cheapest cost ever to get this feckless person out of claiming special alliance to you.

Just reflect on what motivated you to ask him to be a godparent and what value you hoped he'd bring to your child's life.

I suffer with depression amd still know right from wrong and hiw to do a project I committed too.

For me if I've committed to having a grandchild the weekend and depressed . I don't cancel. I give them the best weekend and sleep it off when they've gone home and do what I need to then.

This needs you all coming from the same angle on the same sheet. Setting boundaries and promoting independence.

No you don't pay him and say its shockingly bad and ask what's going on.
Mum now sets a rent and you all say the same thing when asked.

Ie would you like company to the job centre or shall we look together for jobs on line or would you like help with an updated cv.

He knows working will give him self respect that he's lacking and no one wants to be a scrounger, it will worsen his depression

He should see his GP if maybe depressed. He doesn't take responsibility and is a child and everyone encourages it. Stop.

Give him £15 - if he does a piss poor job of painting you do a piss poor job of paying him.

Did you still pay him for dog sitting? He only did half the job there, wasted food/milk he insisted on you buying, didn't keep the house clean and neglected your dog for several days.

I'd still pay him - to avoid you being described as too cheap or hard up to pay him and that's the reason you didn't pay him.

Who cares what he thinks? He's proved himself, over and over, as being irresponsible and entitled. He contracted to do a good paying job in a timely for the OP and her husband and just couldn't be bothered to do more than a partial job, which was a bad job, which needs to be corrected and then completed at a greater cost by a proper professional. And he has no shame in demanding money from his sister for this shoddiness. Would he have this attitude as a contractor to an employer? If so he'd have pushback from them I'm sure.

The time to draw the line is not at the next incident but this, existing one. The OP and husband are right not to pay him. If his mother and other brother are so keen on him having this money let them pay him - otherwise let him learn this one lesson that you do not commit to do something, do a poor/incomplete job then ask for the money for it. 🌹

First of all you shouldn't pay him - he hasn't done the job you were paying him for and it's not the first time he's let you down when been tasked with a job.
Secondly, his behaviour is being enabled with the best will in the world and this can't go on forever - it's not doing him or the rest of the family any good. Are they just assuming it's depression because he seems down or has he had a diagnosis? I would be going down the route of looking into having him assessed for a neurodivergence which may explain the lack of focus, time blindness etc. whatever is going on with him, it would be better to get to the root of the problem so that he can actually function as an adult human being in some way.
Don't pay him for the work and say that you aren't willing to go on supporting him in this way unless he actively gets some help for himself to improve his situation.

Peace and harmony often come at a price. I'd pay him half and never expect anything from him again.

Also, something IS obvs wrong with him.