Is this going to cause a massive family rift?

[Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor]

Sorry for length of this -

I have an older brother who is a little bit of a moocher - I’ve posted about him before under a different name. He has had a great education and many opportunities in life and has ended up, in his mid 30s, with no money and financially dependent on my mother. He never pays for himself and works a couple of hours a day, and that’s it. He is always feeling sorry for himself due to having no money, and therefore my mother/other siblings bank roll him as they worry he is depressed. I think he’s just playing on their emotions/using them (but I can’t be sure of this).

He is always asking us if he can do odd jobs for cash. We let him dog sit last year whilst we were away - fridge full of food for him at ours, 25£ a day etc, and he fucked off for 10 hours a day to see friends and left our dog crying (we could hear on camera after neighbour messaged asking if dog was alright)/had to get mother to intervene as we were abroad. Came home to a fruit bowl full of rotting fruit and fridge full of off milk etc.

Anyway we are expecting and he’s due to be god father as he is an extremely fun brother/uncle. We offered him 200-300£ to paint a wardrobe for the baby as he’s very talented artistically and his hobby is art related. He agreed. We set a deadline of 1 week for the work to be finished. 3 weeks later. 3 weeks of him lying (I can’t do it today as I’m working - turns out he was just at home chilling etc), showing up hours after he said he would, us waiting around for him….what he has painted is shockingly bad - he didn’t put the tape on properly and it needs totally clearing up/the non painted bits will need to be repainted to fix it. Anyway we basically said “if you don’t want to do this please just say as we had another person lined up”. No, he’s sorry but he’s not motivated. Ok, fine. So we have to get the other person to undo all his shitty work and the deadline was weeks ago and this has been a totally maddening experience.

Today he messaged asking for money for the time spent on it. On one hand - maybe he is depressed (although he is never too depressed to see his friends and do the things HE wants to do - dinners, lunches, cinema trips, gym etc) and he did spend some time painting. On the other hand he totally fucking let us down and it’s going to now cost us MORE money than the other person originally quoted as she’s not starting from scratch.

I don’t want to cause a huge family argument if we don’t pay him so do we just pay him something? What’s fair?

I agree wholeheartedly with what you’re saying. I’m sorry about your BIL and im
happy he managed to make a go of his life in the end.

Is he a functioning alcoholic?

I don’t think he’s an alcoholic but I think
He has an issue with alcohol; yes. But I think my mother and other brother do too.

eg we went to the cinema 3 weeks ago and both brothers drank 6 660ml bottles of beer during the film. Granted, it was a long film
but DB was drunk. At Christmas they drank even more than that and he started opening our very expensive “special” bottles of wine to just keep drinking - for the alcohol, not because he cared about the wine if you see what I mean

he’s doing dry April.

That's a huge amount of alcohol to drink during one film!!!
And drinking for the alcohol is a clear sign.
Follow your DH's lead and don't pay him. He was meant to do a job (for a lot of money too) and he didn't do it. End of.

First time saying no is the worst.

Just wondering OP... you mentioned he goes out with his friends a lot - who pays then? I assume they do? They must get fed up with it too?

SIX 660ml bottles during a film that's, what, three hours' tops? That's a scary amount of booze for such a time period. Drinking any kind of alcohol he can get his hands on just to keep drinking? Again, scary.

I think you've just identified why he's got no drive and doesn't want to do stuff. He wants to drink more. Do you think he'll last all April?

With family we always pay but with his friends he pays. That’s part of the reason he’s a piss taker - he has money to do what he wants to do, if no one else is paying!

He did dry January and was fine, but then just went back to the same ways. Few nights per week of such heavy drinking. But as I said - other brother and mother have a similar drinking pattern which is part of why they all love hanging out so much (I’m never invited, obviously)

Pay him the money and then cut him off.

Say no

Your family blaming depression isnt helping. It is still your brother’s responsibility to deal with his own poor mental health. Hes just being pandered to right now. This is ultimately a fail by everyone around him who has indulged him thus far. Stand your ground

my mother is overly invested in our lives

I remember going to DH parents 2 hours away for two days with the kids and being rung up to an angry screaming tirade about why I'd didn't have "the grace or decency," to inform them. I was 38 at the time! It turned out they'd invited other relatives stay at our house, without telling me. The rage that I wasn't available to do their bidding and had embarrassed them. Apparently I'd been volunteered to pick them up at the airport too.

It sounds like your DM has got matriarch itis and is clinging onto the days when she could order your lives and tell you what to do and has failed to accept that you are now an adult, a mother yourself and you have your own priorities. Its like saying your DB must be indulged, I am and so you must too.

You need to wean her off this. It doesn;t have to be unkind, just be selective about how much you tell them and get a bit of space from the oversight.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff .... what?!?! They'd invited relatives over to see you at your house without asking or telling you?! To stay?!

Sorry to hear about your mother. Sounds a pretty batshit situation re the entitlement wanting to use your house.

funnily enough, my mother’s (self ascribed) nickname is “the matriarch”

Experience is the most expensive thing you ever pay for. Of course you have to pay him. He's manipulating every single person in the family.

But there is nothing to stop you wising up.

Personally, I think you're stupid for making him Godfather! Make that really stupid. Because which child needs a feckless, irresponsible Godparent?

Just withdraw from using any of his "must pay" services.

Be pleasant at family events. Don't trust him ever - especially with responsibility (like how daft are you to make him a godparent.)

Just reflect and put in place some boundaries, that include him never crashing on your sofa. Or if he does make sure you wake him at 6am every morning to help out with the children, just so he doesn't feel inclined to outstay his welcome.

But don't come whinging to mumsnet about paying for this, including him in that, extra special consideration, while all he is doing is being a dick and abusing and exploiting people. (Again great values, NOT, in a godparent.)

Your post is incredibly contradictory. If he’s a total arsehole and I need to wise up (your post is unnecessarily unkind btw) why on earth would I pay him?

There are 2 separate issues: his paint job and being a godfather.
Don’t think u can un-ask him to be a godfather so u will just have to hope he does what is needed. The poor painting is kind of sad and spoilt and smacks of someone with low energy/depression. He’s never going to change unless your mum changes or he feels the need to impress someone i.e. falls in love.
Until he decides to change his ways there is little you can do. Just look after yourself and your family.

I am in a very similar situation with my DB. He is very much in the last chance saloon now with me and our DP. If he doesn’t take any responsibility this time he will likely lose his flat and everything. After years of trying literally everything, we are out of ideas and at our wits end. It is painful but I have concluded that you cannot help someone who won’t help themselves or at least acknowledge that they need help. I wish you and your family well.

Do you mind my asking what happened with your brother?

No, do not pay him. The work is substandard and he has messed you about.

Now, about this godfather business. It's all very well being fun and sweet with children but that's not the point. Part of being a godparent is being ready to stand up and take responsibility should anything happen to the actual parents. Can you honestly see him being up to that?

He's a total grifter. That's his lifestyle. Pay him nothing, don't allow him to be godfather, he's a waster and a bad example to a child. People like this kid you on that they are great, they have all the answers, they'll come good - but they don't. So do not get sucked in!

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff

I remember going to DH parents 2 hours away for two days with the kids and being rung up to an angry screaming tirade about why I'd didn't have "the grace or decency," to inform them. I was 38 at the time! It turned out they'd invited other relatives stay at our house, without telling me. The rage that I wasn't available to do their bidding and had embarrassed them. Apparently I'd been volunteered to pick them up at the airport too.

I hope you and your husband had a great deal to say to your mother about her manipulative behaviour and left her in no doubt that she could never do this again and the consequences. 🌹

It is not a good idea to make him a godfather. A godparent is SUPPOSED to be a positive influence upon your child. You want your child to emulate him? Really?

As for paying him, no. He didn't try and didn't finish. He needs to learn there are consequences for his actions.

Honestly, it sounds as if you baby him as much as the rest of your family. Many people have mental health problems and manage to work, live on their own and pay their own bills. He has excuses galore and is avoiding acting like an adult.

So, he can act lie a total arsehole, but you don't want to hurt his feelings?

I think you are equal to the rest of the family and excusing his grifting and awful, lazy, sponging behavior. Making him a godfather is about the dumbest thing I've read here recently. FFS

I feel sorry for your DH and children. They are the only innocents in this comedy of the "fun" in a very dysfunctional family.

It's not unkind at all. It's honest and the truth. Your SIB is treated as if he were a child/young teen and you all play into it and let it continue. Someday, your mother will be gone, so I hope you make enough money to give him for his daily "outings".