Is this going to cause a massive family rift?

[Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor]

Sorry for length of this -

I have an older brother who is a little bit of a moocher - I’ve posted about him before under a different name. He has had a great education and many opportunities in life and has ended up, in his mid 30s, with no money and financially dependent on my mother. He never pays for himself and works a couple of hours a day, and that’s it. He is always feeling sorry for himself due to having no money, and therefore my mother/other siblings bank roll him as they worry he is depressed. I think he’s just playing on their emotions/using them (but I can’t be sure of this).

He is always asking us if he can do odd jobs for cash. We let him dog sit last year whilst we were away - fridge full of food for him at ours, 25£ a day etc, and he fucked off for 10 hours a day to see friends and left our dog crying (we could hear on camera after neighbour messaged asking if dog was alright)/had to get mother to intervene as we were abroad. Came home to a fruit bowl full of rotting fruit and fridge full of off milk etc.

Anyway we are expecting and he’s due to be god father as he is an extremely fun brother/uncle. We offered him 200-300£ to paint a wardrobe for the baby as he’s very talented artistically and his hobby is art related. He agreed. We set a deadline of 1 week for the work to be finished. 3 weeks later. 3 weeks of him lying (I can’t do it today as I’m working - turns out he was just at home chilling etc), showing up hours after he said he would, us waiting around for him….what he has painted is shockingly bad - he didn’t put the tape on properly and it needs totally clearing up/the non painted bits will need to be repainted to fix it. Anyway we basically said “if you don’t want to do this please just say as we had another person lined up”. No, he’s sorry but he’s not motivated. Ok, fine. So we have to get the other person to undo all his shitty work and the deadline was weeks ago and this has been a totally maddening experience.

Today he messaged asking for money for the time spent on it. On one hand - maybe he is depressed (although he is never too depressed to see his friends and do the things HE wants to do - dinners, lunches, cinema trips, gym etc) and he did spend some time painting. On the other hand he totally fucking let us down and it’s going to now cost us MORE money than the other person originally quoted as she’s not starting from scratch.

I don’t want to cause a huge family argument if we don’t pay him so do we just pay him something? What’s fair?

Agreed re: the godfather thing - it's purely ceremonial.

As per my earlier post, this simply isn't true!

Your letting a man who cannot look after a dog be the nominated person to look after your child should something happen to you because he's a fun uncle!
Why would you do that?

I’d be tempted to say I was feeling too depressed to pay him.

In all seriousness though, in most families a godfather would paint the wardrobe for free and they’d be happy to do it. It would have been lovely for your child to have a piece of furniture painted by her Godfather and uncle but he couldn’t be arsed and then demanded payment for his shite job.

He’s quite happy to let everyone pay for him on meals out etc and then demands payment for dog sitting/small favours aswell? He’s self centred, entitled and irresponsible. Having depression is no excuse for behaving like that. He’s just a dickhead I’m afraid.

I have an extremely controlling parent, I was afraid to go against her and felt like I had to involve her in everything. I had enough one day after she blew up at me again and went no contact. Best decision I ever made. She now knows nothing about my life so can have no opinion on it and can no longer control me.

Do not involve your mother in this. If she brings it up, keep repeating that it’s between you and DB and you will not be discussing it with her. It will infuriate her but you need to set boundaries or she will continue to interfere.

Tough love is called for, clearly. It will be beneficial long term for everyone, especially for your brother. His behaviour/personality has gone on too long and too far. Behaviours and personalities can be modified, changed for the better. He does NEED help, by the description of his activities (and non-activities) -- tough love by the family, starting with the siblings. It'll be unpleasant for everyone in the initial stages, I guess. Mothers are always the last people to practise tough love.. and she's failed him so far!!

That’s the thing that for some reason no one in my family seems to get - I feel let down on quite a personal level about this. Now whenever I look at this wardrobe im
just joking to feel annoyed, rather than think it was some lovely thing. Well done for going NC with your mother, I’m glad it helped you.

I basically haven’t heard from my family all week due to this. Im seeing other brother today so he might mention it, but other than my mother’s passive aggressive text there’s been nothing.

this thread has been amazing, really, in showing me I'm not crazy.

What type of help do you suggest encouraging him to start with?

Start thinking/behaving/acting with him as you'd do with another 30 year old grown up however cuddly. There are no royal roads to human adjustment of behaviours/personalities assuming, as I am doing, there is no medical conditions afflicting a grown up, educated, able young-ish man. Good luck.

Agree with others. He doesn't deserve to be paid, especially when you're having to pay out to have it redone by someone else. It sounds like he uses the 'I'm feeling down' when it suits him to continue being a free loader. He's playing with you and your families emotions to benefit himself. I wouldn't trust him to look after my house, dog or child because it seems that he only thinks about himself. He did a shoddy job on the work you requested and not within the deadline. If he was a proper trader, you'd be within your rights not to pay the full amount as a result. He's your brother but he's acting like a child who relies on pocket money. He needs to grow up and get a proper job. All the time the family are subsidising his lifestyle, he won't be motivated to get his life in order.

OMG I pay my lazy 16yr old for "jobs" and he's milking me. This thread has been an eye-opener! Any tips I can follow NOW for making sure he doesn't end up like "the godfather"?

16yr old also had a rubbish experience of education....etc - there are good reasons for it all, but I don't want to "enable" his laziness and complete lack of drive.

OP I feel frustrated on your behalf- feels like you can’t win no matter what you do. In your position I would try my best to compartmentalise your DB behaviour around asking for paid jobs ie don’t entertain the idea ever again (as I think you already mentioned) but there’s also no need to fall out with him if you get on ok otherwise ie he makes an effort to spend time with your kids.
I also wouldn’t get into it with your DM at any level. Don’t discuss any conversations between you and your DB with her and if she starts to ask direct questions/make accusations then stick to the facts when you answer her without getting emotional- keep it brief then shut it down and move on. Hopefully that way you can maintain the relationships with all your family without compromising your own happiness. I’m sure if none of you were around, your brother would be able to stand on his own two feet so just keep reminding yourself of this. Good luck!

I wouldn't pay him and certainly wouldn't suggest him as a godparent. Totally unsuitable. He obviously thrives on hand outs and doing nothing. He is a moocher of 1st degree and it's very easy to play the mental health card when caught out doing something wrong...

I understand your position @Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor, unless they have bizarre family set ups, people just don’t get it.

yeah you are going to have to blow the roof off. Not pay for this piss poor job and tell them why.

if it blows up, it blows up, but at least you’re showing how you’re not involved in institutionalising your db and contributing to his hobbling.

He doesn't need a therapist. He needs to be kicked out of the parental home and forced to fend for himself. Your parents, however, could do with therapy to understand co-dependency.

Oh, and no fucking way on earth would I be giving him that money. Or making him a god parent. God parents are supposed to be reliable and responsible, aren't they?

For a lot of people, a godparent is more of a ceremonial title than anything really important. There are no legal responsibilities, and no obligations. So it doesn't really matter whether he's a godfather or not.

The way the family treats him and you is more of an issue. Do you get on well with your other brother? Does he continually bail his brother out as well?

Out if interest, how much does dB think he's owed for what he's managed to paint/mess up?
I'd be asking if he thought what he'd done was of a high enough standard to be considered finished and also if you wanted to sell the item in it's current state with bodged paint jib, what you could sell it for.

You said he was brilliant and fun with the children but the swimming story tells otherwise. I would never have spoken to him again after the dog incident.

She's specifically said she hasn't done this.

Why can he decide to not paint the wardrobe or look after the dog but you can't decide to uninvite him as godfather?

My other brother is the eldest. He’s worked his arse off to be very successful and a combination of his success and the fact we don’t really have a father, means he feels a keen sense of Responsibility for both my mother and DB.

i was curious re asking DB what he’s actually expecting to be paid but DH doesn’t want to engage.

I think it matters. I think the people who you have around your children and show your children that you approve of their behaviour by supporting it, will have an effect on what your children think is acceptable. (sorry about the long sentence.) What you will be showing your children is that its ok to be a whining moocher provided that you are "fun" when you choose to be.

If you want to make someone think its worth changing their behaviour (and THEY have to choose to do it), then the first step is to stop rewarding the behaviour.

but he isn't being responsible is he? he is enabling!

Your DM constantly gives him her approval because he conveniently fulfils her need. She can afford to carry on subsidising his rent and his leisure activities. For her, it’s nothing to do with what is morally right and wrong. All she knows is that she wants to keep him close and useful to her and her money is the way to do it.
Somewhere deep down she knows that he wouldn’t give a care about her ordinarily -unless she bankrolls him, so that’s why she doesn’t want you to rock the boat. She insists you give him your approval at every opportunity too and make excuses for him like she does.
She has no right to undermine your decision when her own is morally lacking.

I think you need to pull away a bit from your DM as well as stand your ground with your DB. The right thing to do over the painting job, is as you already decided….offer him anything that’s left over from putting his work right or charge him for the extra it costs you to put his work right. You had a verbal contract and everybody has to learn that lesson -that you must accept all the consequences of not fulfilling your side of the bargain (which may include your DS being very upset with you)

You feel fully justified in having him as godfather and have explained your position. Just be aware though, that he accepts your approval for his godfather role and status as though he is entitled to it …not as if it is a privilege. He won’t take the role seriously at all. He will just be led to think that you trust him and therfore approve of him.

It is that constant approval that fuels his selfishness, flippancy, arrogance entitlement and ignorance. Even if he is fun at times (that suit him.)

Is that the thread about buying him swimming trunks and then he and your DM having you pay for lunch/drinks?

He has really been a grifter for a long time.

I also am very sorry, but I don't believe that your DB is truly depressed. He picked a MH issue that is really impossible to refute and easily used as an excuse. The fact that he can do what he wants when he wants pretty much tosses a wrench in that excuse. Well, and not getting help for all these years, as getting help would mean he has to become an adult. Heaven forbid!