Is this going to cause a massive family rift?

[Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor]

Sorry for length of this -

I have an older brother who is a little bit of a moocher - I’ve posted about him before under a different name. He has had a great education and many opportunities in life and has ended up, in his mid 30s, with no money and financially dependent on my mother. He never pays for himself and works a couple of hours a day, and that’s it. He is always feeling sorry for himself due to having no money, and therefore my mother/other siblings bank roll him as they worry he is depressed. I think he’s just playing on their emotions/using them (but I can’t be sure of this).

He is always asking us if he can do odd jobs for cash. We let him dog sit last year whilst we were away - fridge full of food for him at ours, 25£ a day etc, and he fucked off for 10 hours a day to see friends and left our dog crying (we could hear on camera after neighbour messaged asking if dog was alright)/had to get mother to intervene as we were abroad. Came home to a fruit bowl full of rotting fruit and fridge full of off milk etc.

Anyway we are expecting and he’s due to be god father as he is an extremely fun brother/uncle. We offered him 200-300£ to paint a wardrobe for the baby as he’s very talented artistically and his hobby is art related. He agreed. We set a deadline of 1 week for the work to be finished. 3 weeks later. 3 weeks of him lying (I can’t do it today as I’m working - turns out he was just at home chilling etc), showing up hours after he said he would, us waiting around for him….what he has painted is shockingly bad - he didn’t put the tape on properly and it needs totally clearing up/the non painted bits will need to be repainted to fix it. Anyway we basically said “if you don’t want to do this please just say as we had another person lined up”. No, he’s sorry but he’s not motivated. Ok, fine. So we have to get the other person to undo all his shitty work and the deadline was weeks ago and this has been a totally maddening experience.

Today he messaged asking for money for the time spent on it. On one hand - maybe he is depressed (although he is never too depressed to see his friends and do the things HE wants to do - dinners, lunches, cinema trips, gym etc) and he did spend some time painting. On the other hand he totally fucking let us down and it’s going to now cost us MORE money than the other person originally quoted as she’s not starting from scratch.

I don’t want to cause a huge family argument if we don’t pay him so do we just pay him something? What’s fair?

DH is in no way going to be paying him - and I am not going to argue with DH re this/fight DB’s corner.

“Or you can just be brutally honest and ask why his feelings always matter so much more than yours”

it’s been quite sad really, seeing this said and pointed out by strangers on this thread. But yes, this situation and my mother ignoring my messages last night make it pretty clear that no matter what he does, somehow everyone is always on his side.

he’s not even the golden child, my eldest brother is!

it’s been so interesting seeing people’s reaction re our dog. Definitely if I kick up a fuss re stuff I’m “causing a drama” and so I’ve been conditioned to just swallow a lot of stuff.

Pay him and then never ever offer him an odd job again. If he asks for money for anything else don't give him or just say you don't have it to give.
Reconsider the godparent role.

I agree with the poster who said:

Pay him £10/20 and say there's no more as you need to spend it on getting it redone. Don't pay him for any more jobs

Keep the godparent role if what you're expecting is a fun uncle and he meets that

I have just read this thread and I totally agree with you. I feel very sorry for the op. She has been trained to accept her brother's shitty behaviour and to think he is fun and a lovely brother, whereas he is just a selfish bastard who only wants what he can get from people. I would have cut him off for neglecting the dog.

He accepted a price for a job, payment on completion of job. He didn’t complete the job, he said he wasn’t motivated to complete the job, he left the work in a worse state than he started it.

It was a commercial transaction. Employment. A commission.

You wouldn’t pay any other tradesperson / artist under the same circumstances. A joiner who got as far as removing the doors, or a portrait painter who left drips all over the canvas and only got as far as painting one ear .

If he accepts paid work the ‘pay ‘ and ‘work’ come as a package.

That simple.

It is actually no other family members business. Stuck record : he didn’t do the job as agreed, I can’t afford to pay twice for the job.

There is of course a way he could get paid: finish the job properly. And swiftly. You could point that out to your mum and interfering relatives too.

They don’t get to spend your money for you.

OP I think at this point you should spend the wardrobe painting money on some therapy sessions to unravel a very messed up family dynamic that seems to have your mother in the centre. She created and continues this family system of older golden child, infantized brother and you expected to swallow down every hurt and being dismissed as creating drama if you're hurt by the others actions. Your responsibility now is to break this cycle to protect your children.

OP, I had an uncle (also godfather) who had paranoid schizoprenia diagnosed in his teens and was alternately really unwell or struggling with the horrible meds for all of my childhood. He was the most kind, generous and giving man who spent a lot of time with us children, could be trusted to look after us (obviously not when acutely unwell but then he was usually in hospital) and did anything he could to make us happy. If offered money for this sort of job, he would have been appalled and refused. He didn't have "possible" depression, the worries about him harming himself were real and valid because of numerous instances when he did, he was (looking back from an adult perspective) incredibly ill. He did try though, so hard.

Your description of your brother as a "moocher" is accurate, but he's been aided and abetted in that by over indulgence and it has done him no favours. What the rest of the family do is up to them, but you are allowed not to enable and cosset him. If you do draw some lines, what's the worst that could happen? Your mother will put some daft posts about "family" on SM no doubt, but I imagine she will want to retain a relationship with her functioning adult daughter and her grandchildren.

Please don’t make him your child’s godfather, as this will make your child responsible for him when he is old and needs care and won’t accept any and as he has no life skills will be living in a hovel.
don’t make your child his god child, as god children do feel responsible

This is a very good point. Think very carefully about the consequences of this. If anything happens to you, your child will grow up feeling they have responsibility for this lazy wanker and will end up having to care for him because he's too lazy to look after himself. Do you really want to saddle your kid with the role of carer for your brother in later life? because if there is noone else left to look after him, you can bet he'll try to emotionally blackmail your kid into doing it. Dont think he wont- just look at his past behaviour as evidence of that. He doesnt care about anyone else but himself.

Good point. I too would be cautious of creating any further connections beyond Uncle - you might be saddling your poor kid with the incompetent lazy blighter in his dotage!

So what? Jobs are about the outcome not the effort. And DO NOT do the godfather thing. I see you making excuses about fun uncle and ceremonial role. They really are excuses for linking your kids to a hopeless cadger.

He’s a lazy leeching loser and that’s all there is to it. I would limit contact and no way would he be godfather. And never any paid work ever again. For a painting enthusiast to deliver that quality of work - he’s taking the piss out of you and you are a cash cow. How could you let someone be your kid’s godfather when he shamelessly fucks you over again and again?

Your brother is a warhammer enthusiast. Therefore he should work full time in a warhammer shop. But there will be some excuse why not.

More fool you if you tolerate or enable this continued disgraceful behaviour.

I might sound like a harsh bitch, but I am in fact not. I’ve brought up a child, now adult, with SN and worked my guts out to ensure good MH.

You have given him a get out clause from adulting because he isn't a df... Really?. He needs to be missing out to make him get the fuck a job and pay his way!!

You’re surrounded by codependents.. you may have to swallow this one and give him £50 (if you want to) but offer no more jobs.

or You could post that family would want to paint their god daughters wardrobe for free and actually put the effort in. He was doing nothing else with his time anyway. Not charge more than a professional that looks like a drunken raccoon has done..

You’re waking up from codependency, but they aren’t. You might have to let them sleep. Shaking and poking them won’t work. Just vow to never part with any cash again.

I have a brother like this, he’s a total waste of space. When my mother was alive she enabled him to be this way and made all kinds of concessions and excuses regarding his behaviour. Now he can’t hold a job (in his 50s) can’t hold down a relationship, squandered all his inheritance. He’s totally entitled and thinks that the rest of his family should still help support him and fund his lifestyle because he’s been rubbish with his money and no one has ever made him stand on his own two feet. Not such a ‘fun’ uncle anymore sadly, just someone who has wasted their life and is incredibly self- important for absolutely no reason.

It's a hard decision for you OP.

Your DM is being pass-agg with posting the family photos shit but try to ignore those messages; she's trying to make you feel guilty. She needs to stop interfering in your relationship with your brother and you need to find a way to tell her this. Your relationship with him is independent to the one she has with him. If she's prepared to tolerate his 'mooching' then she can crack on; don't drag you into the dependency. That isn't your 'role'. When your DM passes, you'll only get saddled with the responsibility. You really don't want that!

If you've tried to explain to your DM and other brother how upset you've been by your DB's actions (dog/painting/swimming and a lot of other things I'm sure!) and they don't take on board what you say, you do need to start distancing yourself. For your own sake and that of your DH and kids.

As others have pointed out why are his feelings more important than yours? Why is it more important that his feelings are catered for and not yours? Perhaps when you are able to speak to your DM and other brother about how you feel, you need to ask them these questions and assess their responses. (I think I can guess how that'll go so prepare for distancing).

It's a horrible situation to be in; I can empathise as I've been through similar and I'm now NC with my brother. And I do feel all the better for it.

Not to sound morbid but have you thought about what him being the godparent could mean if something happens to you and your DH? Have you made explicit provision in your wills for every eventuality when it comes to your children if something happens to you both?

That's a shocking job. I'm suprised he left it in that state, considering it's for his niece. He clearly doesn't give a shit about your baby does he? Just give me the cash! No I wouldn't pay him. I'd get someone else to finish the job and tell him afterwards," I'm not paying you, because your painting was shocking. I've just paid someone else to rectify it." Why on earth are you treating him like a poor family member with learning difficulties?! Just because your mum's happy to?! He is a grown man, heading towards middle age! Don't give him any more jobs to do. I certainly would not make him god parent, they are supposed to help steer your child the right way! You've been far too nice to him for sure.

Fuck me he can't even look after a dog & you think he should be a godfather because it's bloody "fair"?

He wouldn't be the guardian because he's a godparent!

No, he wouldnt automatically be guardian. However, what happens when he is old and still just as useless/lazy/feckless and starts pressurising his God child to help him/be a carer for him/lend him money? I can imagine him piling on the emotional blackmail - but I'm your GODFATHER, dont you care? Urgh.

Thing is, it is really easy to say "don't pay him" when you are the one who doesn't have to put up with family fallout for the next 50 years. Near zero consequence for me. 50 years of potential misery for you.

I would pay him the minimum you can get away with (200£?) and then actually learn from the experience. I.e don't pay him any money to do anything again and keep your interactions and expectations of him in the family to a minimum, or to things that you know he can actually deliver on.