To not want to go to Rome with Mil

[theotherfossilsister]

Mil can be very nice. She is great with ds, but there is a lot of tension between us. Dp is an only child and his dad died in November. We went to stay with her for two weeks after this although we live in the same city. I understand why. It was a big trauma for her and dp. My own dad died when I was pregnant with ds which was also hard, but I was very focused on the pregnancy then. I'm also one of four and lucky to have a brother who lives near my mum and supported her. I know it's harder for only children. My mum lives in France so it's a long way to go.

Mil and sadly fil to an extent massively overstepped when ds was born. He was in neonatal for a long stay and they'd turn up when they knew I had my breastfeeding support, and insist on coming in, so I had to go and sit in the pumping room while they held ds. Dp didn't stand up to me and I felt very vulnerable. Later I ended up in mother and baby unit.

There were other things too, like during my pregnancy I broke my arm and shoulder and could literally do nothing for myself but the week I had surgery for it they decided to go to Fils home town for two nights and take dp. They said it was very important dp went as his dad was ill, etc, but I was having a general anaesthetic (really bad break otherwise they'd not have done it when pregnant.) In the end the consultant told dp he needed to stay, and sadly for pils fil was too unwell to go anyway.

Stupid little things like this still really rankle still. It feels like mil doesn't see me as important.

I'm currently really agorophobic but working with an OT on exposure therapy. One of the things which feeds agrophobia is shame so I'm trying really hard to not be ashamed, but mil doesn't believe my agrophobia is real. I have an exaggerated freeze reflex where I literally freeze so hard that I fall over and I am carry a walking stick for this, recommend, but mil is disgusted by this. I'm working on getting well so hard and also on accepting and coexisting with the agrophobia.

It's really hard but I'm making progress

Dp wants to take Mil to Rome at the end of this month, and as it's important to her that DS comes I need to come as well, because I simply cannot be away from my twenty month old for five nights. I'm dreading this trip but understand it's something mil needs after her bereavement.

I also have limited annual leave and I'm trying to use it to write. Lots going on. I'm dreading this trip though

And yes, I know Rome is lovely.

I don’t usually leave this type of o comments but come on op, yes your mil isn’t very nice but your husband was going to go away with them when you were pregnant and needed surgery after breaking your arm and shoulder?!? What?!? You need to sort your husband out, this is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve read on this forum. Yes, his father was ill but you were pregnant with his baby and very unwell! Come on!!

Sorry - there is no reason a 20mo needs to be in Rome. DP should take her and they can hive mother/sone bonding. I’d refuse to go.

A. 20. Month old is not going to have a clue about Rome, all he will know is he is away from you.

All those incidents are NOT "silly little things" - I'd have lost my shit for any one of those never mind them all in one relationship situation. They are ALL huge violations of your privacy, rights etc.

Your DH is pathetic and needs to set some boundaries! You're vulnerable and he's literally stepping on you to please his Mum.

I would let them take the tot and try to enjoy 5 days peace and quiet.

Everything else aside, I can’t imagine anything worse than a 5 day city break with a 20 month old. I love Rome, and I love babies, but definitely not together.

I really don't mean to sound negative but going to Rome whilst overcoming agoraphobia and with a toddler sounds incredibly stressful. Your Mil does not sound nice at all. Well done for making progress with your agoraphobia and keep going with it.

I think it's fine to say you're not going but I do think it's unreasonable to say your DP can't take DS. He's not going to be traumatised by being away from you for a few days and he'd be with his dad and his Granny! I don't think Rome is an ideal place for a trip with a 2 year old but that's their choice so I'd let them get on with it and have a few peaceful days at home.

There are so many solutions to this

• they can go at another time when you're feeling better
• they can go for less time and bring ds while you stay home
• they can go by themselves
• he tells MIL that the trip will have to be adjusted because his wife is unwell

you have to accept that dh and mil will NEVER see your point of view if it means they don't get to do what they want. if you want to carry on with them in your life you have to get comfortable in being cast as the vilian and be ok with not being the good guy.

with kindness, why do you think you went to the pump room by yourself with mil holding the baby - was it because you can't tolerate the feeling of standing up for yourself?

yoi don't need to explain they will not siddenly agree if you explain it the right way.

a few short sentences - no, I'm too unwell to go and ds is too young to be away from his primary caregiver for that long. I'm happy for you to go by yourselves or bring ds for a shorter time.

if your dh says 'ill have to disappoint mil' say 'ok, if you think that's better than the two other options I respect your decision'

sending you strength for your healing

I’m almost fixated on your broken arm and shoulder - I really can’t believe your dh and pil would have actually gone away and left you all alone, even if you weren’t pregnant. That’s one of the worst things I’ve read here, and that’s saying something. Really, wtf was your dh thinking?
Why is it important for your child to go to Rome? It’s ridiculous. Mil can see your toddler whenever she likes, she lives down the bloody road.
Do you love dh? If so, why? Mil will control him until the day she dies, can you live like this? I hope you can conquer your agraphobia so you don’t have to rely on your awful, weak, pathetic dh for too much longer.
Don’t go to Rome, and keep your child home with you. Or if there’s a way for you get there, take the baby and stay with your mum.

DS doesn't 'need' to go. Just say no. Why is Rome so important?

Rome with a 20 month old sounds hell on earth. Saying if you don’t go means she will have to cancel is a bluff. Just ok then I think cancelling is the best for everyone then and leave it there

It actually sounds quite important for your recovery OP to not go to Rome.

Can't you sit your DP down and explain:

• France was more difficult for me than I expected, even though it was a familiar and quiet location. I don't want to put myself through another trip so soon afterwards.
• Being in Rome, big busy city, will be much harder than France
• I need my walking stick and MIL's comments will make things more stressful for me
• happy for you to go with MIL on your own
• DS is too little to appreciate Rome and it will be tiring to keep him entertained and happy everywhere / all the time
• I would find it v difficult to be apart from DS for 5 days so would prefer if he stayed with me.
• I really need to concentrate on my continued recovery and I hope you will support me

It all sounds v reasonable to me. Good luck

By focussing on the Rome/France thing, a lot of posters are missing the actual pertinent points. OP has said much is trivial, but I don’t think so at all, I strongly suspect she’s been told this by her selfish bitch of a MIL and her prick of a partner. Let me summarise and highlight some things many have missed:

1. Baby was so ill he was in intensive care for a long time, during which PILs rocked up when told not to and disrupted her breastfeeding time to the extent she had to go and pump away from the baby.
2. OP was so ill she had PND and ended up in a mother and baby unit, that sounds very serious.
3. OP’s broken arm and surgery was so serious that a consultant had to step in when golden boy was planning to swan off on holiday and leave her alone, and stop that happening. PILs didn’t care one bit, it was all about their stupid holiday.
4. OP lost her own father while pregnant, where’s her time to grieve, to deal with that on top of everything else? But MIL is the delicate little flower who now needs her hand held for ever more.
5. OP clarified that she has less support now because she got MOVED TO ADULT CARE. This suggests she was under 18 when she gave birth, in which case MIL is not a feeble older woman, but between 40 and 60.
6. MIL is trying to bully OP into not using the stick, because she’s a bitch who refuses to believe a phobia can be that debilitating. Or more likely, she just doesn’t care about OP, only about being the matriarch and dominating via her son and guilt tripping about the grandson.
7. MIL is trying to bully OP into this ridiculous trip as a power play, nothing else.
8. “D”P hasn’t even begun to cut the apron strings and is a liability to the mental and physical recovery of the mother of his child. He could turn around today and say no, I’m not taking you on holiday mother and stop bullying my partner, but he’s too enmeshed to do that, throwing a strop instead with ‘fine, nobody can go’, like a tantrumming 5 year old and blaming the very vulnerable OP.

Have I missed anything? OP, I really hope the counselling helps, but please put yourself and your son first, cos they are not. I’ll say it one last time, these are not ‘silly little things’, they are power plays by that bitch of a MIL. She ‘can be nice’ when it suits her, that is when she wants to be seen to be nice, but right now she is being a bitch and a bully. That's who she is.

In Rome, there are many, many paintings of "Madonna and Child", "Holy Family", "Sacred Family"...

Note the names of the paintings. Never seen one with Mary's mother-in-law...

Is there a specific reason for going to Rome itself? A family link or a memory etc?

Many years ago I was a student I did a bit of holiday nanny for a family who went to Rome for a fortnight week. One parent was working.
I was an extra pair of hands as they had 3 children. I was with the youngest who was roughly 21 months and it wasn't difficult.
I managed the buggy. Plenty of parks etc. We had a child's guide to Rome. The older 2 (4 and 6).
The thing I remember most was the fact that they learned to sit in restaurants and were less unruly when we came back. Funny, I am still in Christmas card contact with them and the 4 year old did Italian and business at Uni and now lives in Rome.

If you don't want to go you don't have to but if you want a compromise have you thought of letting them go and have 2 or 3 days doing what they want and you joining them for the last couple of days, or vice versa going out with them but coming back early? It would also help with your annual leave situation.

Agoraphobia might make it challenging, I'm not sure how it affects you, but going out with them and then coming back early might work, escaping back home might help you deal with it. You might be able to book some assistance for the flight, we did some years ago for my mother but not sure if it is still available.

The MIL is a horrible twat. Her reaction to your illnesses, and her forceful boundary stepping during birth and the time in neonatal is appalling.

This bullshit about Rome is a joke. A toddler will get fuck all from a city break to Rome. They’ll be hot, fractious, and a quick park trip once a day will not change that. She can want your son there until she’s blue in the face, she can fuck off.

But worse is your utterly pathetic husband, who’s putting his manipulative mother ahead of his wife, child and their needs.

Tell the pair of them to go alone and she can husbandify her son at their leisure 🤢 don’t let him manipulate you into going with his threats to cancel.

*Sounds like OPs mum lives abroad, so she wasn't going on holiday WITH her she was going to visit her mum and presumably allow her own mother to have some time with the baby.

MIL just wants a site seeing holiday, which is a different kettle of fish and can be done without OP and the baby being dragged along.*

Agoraphobia won't know the difference. Op can work around it. Go with them but stay at the hotel/location, and her ds and dp go out for the day. I don't think she can use her condition in this situation because she was able to do it before.

She doesn't however have a massive dp problem. He sounds pathetic for allowing his family to treat her this way. I don't blame op for not wanting to go but her reasoning doesn't wash because she's massively being hypocritical.

Well said.

Though with regards to point 5, it could be that she was under perinatal mental heath (which extends until one year after birth) before being moved across to ‘adult’ after that.

Why is your MIL disgusted by you using a walking stick? I think she sounds like a nasty judgemental bitch. You need to use your stick. It’s an essential mobility aid to stop you injuring yourself during your freeze response. She is a truly horrible person for expecting you to manage without it. Would she push someone out of wheelchair and expect them to walk? Or hide an asthma inhaler from someone with breathing problems?

Thank goodness someone else picked up on that, was thinking it was only me!
Baffled as to why she's disgusted with Ops stick, just why??
That alone would put me on edge going anywhere with her, let alone the rest of the crap!
I remember when my eldest was a toddler, there's no way I'd have wanted to go away for.a city break with him for nearly a week, would have been far too much hard work!
They are seriously unreasonable for demanding you to go/emotionally blackmailing you.
There's nothing to stop your DH going with her.
If he doesn't go, that is his decision, not yours
Seriously, I've had the exact same MIL behaviour before and I know how awful it feels, I've been literally shaking the first time I've stood my ground but now I've had to learn to not give two fucks - it gets easier!
Seriously, you have to put your foot down as it definitely won't get any better if you don't, worse even as your child gets older.

With kindness, did you have any mental health problems before starting a relationship with DP?

Everything you've said suggest your in a very specific/intracit emotionally abusive relationship with this family.

She’s a narcissist, her only ‘golden’ child is enabling her and you’ve become the scapegoat. Watch Dr Ramani on YouTube.

She thinks she cares about her son but she’s going to ruin his life by interfering in his relationship with you and causing you to separate. He’s used to her behaviour and hasn’t experienced the worst of it so he’s oblivious to her true nature.

You mustn't go on holiday until you are completely better. That is, - when YOU decide you feel better not when DH or MIL decide for you.
And when you do decide you want to go on holiday, YOU and DH decide between you where you want to go with your own and your baby’s best interests at heart. And you decide if you want to invite MIL or not.

YOU decide, in your own time, when you are ready to leave your stick behind.

You are sick for now and trying your hardest to get well again, yet they are walking all over you mustn’t enable them to do that OP, - as if they have a right to treat you so badly.

Your DH is a wimp and his bossy mother has him wrapped round her little finger. He is afraid of her and feeling guilty and obliged to do as she says …he’s using you to help him feel better about her loss. He’s even prepared to guilt trip you for not giving in to her bonkers idea for a Rome trip.

Don't stand for any of it OP.
Rome is, with respite, hot, sticky, unpleasantly crowded and expensive ..a rip-off for tourists. Simply not the place for a toddler in the summer months, unless that’s very much what he’s used to. It has been 35* in Italy already this last week !
Certainly don’t allow them to take your child without you. He isn’t a prop to be used for touristy photos and he very much needs his mum to look out for him.

Stand up for yourself !
Tell them in no uncertain terms that there is no trip to Rome or anywhere else for you or your son until you are ready and that you will be having a much bigger say in family holidays from now on. Of course MIL can go to Rome but she doesn’t get to dictate who goes with her.

If DH decides to be awkward about you refusing to be walked all over, then tell him he’s an idiot and welcome to go choose his own way forward, - and take the consequences.

I have literally just got back from Rome. It has beautiful architecture and historical sites but it’s hugely crowded and one of the least toddler friendly places I have ever been. A lot of it is uneven underfoot, the toilets aren’t great, the traffic is awful and you have to be constantly on your guard re: pickpockets.

Utterly Gobsmacking this. I am MIL age bracket I suppose. Never heard anything like it.
WTF is wrong with people? Broken bones, loss of a parent, MH issues ( not that you asked for them OP). Are they very wealthy? Sounds hideous.