Private education and healthcare

[LeafUsAlone]

I'm just curious as to why they are considered morally indefensible when people being able to afford better quality clothing, houses, safer cars etc aren't commented on in the same way?

Considering both private healthcare and education doesn't necessarily mean a better quality, why do people get so annoyed over them?

@SkyBloo two things:

1. When I advocated the HT gently suggested that I seemed to want private school standards and that they were available up the road. Advocacy only works if others listen and there was no time to waste insofar as my dc's education was concerned.

1. You may have missed the email, but teachers, nurses and medical doctors now carry student debt. Their training is no longer funded by the state. Personally I think it shoukd be free providing they render 10 years' service to the public sector but I am usually shot down Iver that suggestion on the basis that it indentures people and takes away their freedom - usually by the same people who want to dilute my liberties in relation to chosimg to go private

@SkyBloo would you leave your child to suffer for years, depriving them of therapy or other interventions that would be life changing if delivered early but offer less impact the longer you delay?

there are children in this country that do not receive the basic requirements of food/shelter/clothing - do you deprive your dc of these things on principle as well? It’s the same principle that you need to be a participant in order to advocate for change.

I do what I can to advocate for SEN reform while also leveraging every resource at my disposal to ensure my child has the support they need and deserve, and that includes fees for a private school that supports dd’s needs. In many ways it makes it much easier to advocate, as I am not spending my time and energy fire fighting (or just plain fighting). I don’t need to starve my child to advocate against child hunger, so I don’t understand why I need to make my child suffer at an inadequate (and sometimes traumatic) school in order to advocate for better educational standards.

@SkyBloo No one said it wasn’t a privilege. Why does it matter if it’s a privilege?

My friends husband did this for a hospital. The company spent three months there in every department talking to everyone. Their report showed where huge savings could be made, efficiency improved. It's still mothballed. Five years on

@justasking111 Maybe your friend's DH should forward a redacted executive summary or copy of the report to Wes Streeting. As it's likely to be his department by this time next year, he could get started early.

It'll be out of date now and the company normally work with much bigger clients than one hospital in the UK.

@Mum1976Mum you still have massive amounts of spare money though, and every year for several years to be able to afford private schools.

What irks me is the tired old argument that you make enough 'sacrifices', give up your cappuccinos and so on, and everyone can afford it.

I agree with this. Not Tory reform, not New Labour reforms, not privatisation bit by bit, but proper reform led by medical and public health considerations, not by lily livered and/or toxic politics and those with a profit motive.

Jealousy

Yep, 100%.

I don't agree that it's jealousy. We are very well off and can afford private healthcare and have used it for the whole family. Even though we have a life raft, I still feel furious at what is happening in the NHS at the moment and the lives that are lost through the mess of it all. I absolutely do feel guilty that our family has the choice to buy decent healthcare and others don't.

My experience is very different. I don't know what healthcare course you are referring to but this is certainly not true for Medicine. My GS-educated DC and the rest of their aspiring medic cohort had no problem finding relevant work experience. They just had to use their own initiative and contact hospitals directly and they got some great work experience. This was more useful in helping them to decide whether Medicine was for them rather than being critical to their application. Medical schools don't really care about this type of work experience in interviews. Volunteering and paid work carry more weight as they are accessible to all.

I have mixed feelings on private education. I was privately educated at secondary school and have no doubt I benefited in numerous ways relative to my local comp, which was sadly pretty dire. However, in some countries private schools are banned (one of the Scandinavian, maybe Finland?) and so the overall standard of education is better because there isn’t a ‘two tier’ system. I suspect the same thing would happen with healthcare if those wanting to go private don’t have that option and instead the ‘private’ money was plugged back into the NHS. I have basic private healthcare through work and have used it a few times when the NHS referral process was going to take months. I’d have been perfectly happy using the NHS if I didn’t have to wait so bloody long-private isn’t (generally) better, it’s just much, much faster.

My DC have friends who have applied for AHP courses (physio, paramedic, OT etc.) from grammar school since COVID and they all managed to get work experience. I know some geographical areas took longer to than others to open up again post COVID but my nineteen year old's year group had no problem at all. I don't think WP is the issue here.

I know two aspirational med students who volunteered in nursing homes as A level students. That got them in.

If you want private health care ok, but be aware that if anything goes wrong with your treatment you will be sent to the nearest NHS facility because (unless you are using what HM King uses, and even his father had his heart op in a NHS hospital) they are not set up for emergencies or for anything not straightforward, and if you have a heart attack at home then it's the NHS because they have the facilities and private hospitals do not (previous caveat excepted).
Private education is generally better - though a bit hit and miss - and many state school teachers sent their children to private schools. The solution is better funding, explicit teaching, and streaming and exclusion of disruptive pupils - but these things are not popular with educational elites.

Yes but 'much, much faster' is intrinsically better, particularly for diagnostics where 'fast' can save lives.

For sure, I more meant the actual healthcare isn’t really much better-the consultants also do NHS work so it’s the same doctors, and it’s sometimes even in an NHS hospital. You might get more tests done up front (not always) but otherwise it’s the same care. Speed has long been (IMHO) the greatest problem the NHS faces, and all the incumbent problems delays and rushing cause.

This is why it’s dangerous to think you really have a life raft when you have private healthcare or are cared for in a private hospital.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68717086

Anecdotally, the number of neonatal deaths is higher in private hospitals, too. Doctors seem to be working very long hours.

HT needs a rethink. There are state maintained schools that offer good education but there is a whole wedge of people who think a rounded, liberal education is elitist. Sometimes they are the same people who object to systematic phonics but love encouraging 'creativity' with no knowledge that a knowledge curriculum is what allows creativity. I once met a teacher who told me, quite seriously, that using the AV of the Bible was impossible because the pupils did not understand the words - no idea that explaining the words was part of teaching! I despair quite often.

But if the condition is life-threatening the NHS is totally on the ball. Suspected cancer will be looked into within days ditto conditions such as diabetes. It's what is known as 'elective' surgery such as hip replacements, that has long waiting lists.

You are lucky to be seen within days. The same cannot be said for our health board in special measures for 7 years.

It's a postcode lottery

But if the condition is life-threatening the NHS is totally on the ball. Suspected cancer will be looked into within days ditto conditions such as diabetes

A type 1 diabetic would be dead 'within days'. A type 2 diabetic has a bit of a postcode lottery situation going on, with many struggling to see any kind of specialist, ever.