Private education and healthcare

[LeafUsAlone]

I'm just curious as to why they are considered morally indefensible when people being able to afford better quality clothing, houses, safer cars etc aren't commented on in the same way?

Considering both private healthcare and education doesn't necessarily mean a better quality, why do people get so annoyed over them?

Private schools don't take away resources from state schools though. In fact they take pupils away from being state funded whilst the parents still pay taxes towards state education.

It’s fine if your social and political stance is acutely capitalism. You also have to accept that it isn’t the stance of others.

It's the staff they take away. All those good teachers who could be teaching in the state sector

And to an extent the pupils too. The private sector creams off the easy to educate more likely to be successful pupils and leaves the state sector with the harder job so that it looks bad. It removes pupils and parents who could be good role models, fund raise for the school etc. That's why I was also a state school governor and head of governors for many years because the state sector needs educated involved parents to give back not run away.

I honestly PMSL at people getting excited over the stellar results from top private schools. Given the kids they have to work with anything less would be a travesty. I admire far more some less good results achieved by kids with less parental support and more challenges to contend with and the state school teachers who help them to achieve.

The reason people are worked up about private education is because Kier Starmer has told them to be.

What I think hilarious is that the same people who object to ‘private education’ are quite happy to pay for extra-curricular clubs like football and judo. That’s private education, and the specific purpose of such clubs is to advantage some children over others, but the average idiot can’t grasp that.

A lot of teachers leave state because of the issues around demands of Ofsted, behaviour of pupils, poor SLT etc. That has nothing to do with private schools.

the average state educated idiot?

“It's the staff they take away. All those good teachers who could be teaching in the state sector” That’s total nonsense, @ThePure The teachers at my children’s private school are there because they love the family vibe, ethos, perks and beautiful environment. Most of them came to our school on a gap year as a teen, after having been to private school themselves, and decided to stay. They wouldn’t ever have been teachers in the state sector. The private system creates its own teachers.

As to the idea that well brought up well behaved children should be forced into the state system just so they can provide role models for kids with issues, all I can say is my son had to be ‘the good kid’ in a state school class of thugs and it nearly broke him, physically and mentally. Putting quiet well behaved children into a rowdy class doesn’t improve the class, instead it traumatises the quiet children.

What we really need is a simple fast process that expells badly behaved children from the mainstream state school system until they’re able to join it without disrupting it. I didn’t actually enjoy being forced out of the state system, my children are entitled to a free education too, but the local thugs made sure I have to pay £20k a year to keep my children physically safe at school.

The reason we paid for private education:
From age 8, the dc received specialist teaching for: Mathematics, English, French, Science, History, Geography, Ancient History/Latin. The quality of sports and music provision was outstanding. They didn't have particularly small classes.

The reason we pay for private healthcare - choice of consultant, better information and communication, nicer surroundings and the staff, on the whole, are respectful and polite. I no longer bother to see my NHS GP.

We have paid our taxes, in spades, and there should no be issue that we have paid twice. Leaves more resources for those who can't or won't pay. We recently had to use the NHS for A&E - it was dirty, disorganised and staff were being very very rude to the patients. I left feeling quite certain it was less a problem of resources and more a problem of attitude.

The behaviour of pupils and poor SLT are indeed related to the existence of the private sector see my point above

Pupils with challenging behaviour would be 'diluted out' if all the better behaved kids weren't at private school. Similarly poor SLT related to the brain drain to the private sector

Educate your kids privately if you choose to do so but please don't think you are somehow doing the state sector a favour.

I don't think I'm doing state sector a favour, I'm doing my DD a favour! Don't blame the private sector for the failing of the state sector, instead blame the politicians.
Why should better behaved DC have to dilute/manage the behaviour of disruptive kids?!

I think the answer is clear for both teachers and doctors. You just force them to work in the public options. Then you force people to live in certain areas so that you don’t get a buildups of successful pupils in schools and make sure they are evenly distributed. That would definitely help to even out wealth and good behavior so you don’t get high crime areas.

Did these lovely never state sector teachers not go to a state funded teacher training college then? Or do teaching placements in the state sector?

As I say I send both my kids to the local RI state school so I do walk the walk. I think it is better for them to see what the real world is like.

I don't know about teachers but for Drs you could stop people benefiting from their NHs pension whilst working mainly in the private sector. You could say that Drs who benefited from NHS training need to do a certain number of years post getting their CCT before they were allowed to do private or they pay back the cost. I don't know what's actually wrong with that.

@ThePure or perhaps the teachers are sick of pandering to a system that insists one size fits all. It doesn't. We need more grammar schools, more technical schools, more specialist schools and more prus. Teachers need to be able to expel dc who cannot function physically or socially within massive ci.ps and there needs to be high quality provision for them.

We removed our ds the year he had a primary teacher who taught him the x axis was vertical and the y axis horizontal. The head was not overly bothered because her school was outstanding and placed in the Borough's top five year on year.

That's great that you feel like that but personally I don't want to sacrifice the welfare or education of my DD. We are in a low achieving area where outcomes and destinations aren't great.

What if they can afford their degree privately?

My kids are fine. They haven't been sacrificed in the least. Like I said upthread DD got 7s and 8s at GCSE and is predicted As at A level. Maybe could have got 9s if privately educated but it's not worth it to me. The vast majority of the variance in educational outcome is predicted by your parents education as shown in many studies.

As an amusing aside she'll now get a contextual offer for a Russel group uni in recognition of going to such shit schools which honestly she doesn't need. Shes doing well and she's happy which is pretty much all that matters to me. She also has a diverse friendship group and an appreciation that she has it better than most.

What is morally indefensible is that the quality should be a differentiator

Health and education should be basic building blocks of our society equally available to all independent of wealth

Th existence of significant private sectors is indicative that we have failed

For Drs it's much less the degree and more the years of supervised on the job training that has to happen afterwards which is exclusively done by the NHS. The only way you can be the kind of experienced Dr that people will pay to see is by gaining years of NHS experience

Makes sense… maybe someone should set up a private system for that extra training

Fine. If they do then all good but the private sector currently just creams off Drs that the NHS trained.

Private school is now down to about 3%. Are you really saying that 97% of the country are thickos with behavioural issues and no leadership skills? 😂

But it’s not fine for teachers? I’m a little confused weren’t you against them working in private schools too?

Precisely. Indicative - not causal.

Takes focus away from the huge inequalities in state heath care and education.

People pay to be in better catchment area via house prices or moving to area with good NHS service for their conditions are less high profile and many who do this insist it's different.

I have family who shrugged when our local library was going to be close due to cuts were outraged when their was under threat. They have an NHS dentist so are scathing about people using private - but here there are no private NHS dentists in entire city.