Private education and healthcare

[LeafUsAlone]

I'm just curious as to why they are considered morally indefensible when people being able to afford better quality clothing, houses, safer cars etc aren't commented on in the same way?

Considering both private healthcare and education doesn't necessarily mean a better quality, why do people get so annoyed over them?

Why should my very well behaved child have their education negatively affected by distinctive children though? How is that fair? Why should well behaved DC be responsible for altering the behaviour in a classroom.
That's why we chose private, in a class of 15-20 there is nowhere to hide and disruption just isn't tolerated. SEN is dealt with via 1-2-1 support in the classroom and classrooms are on the whole calm and productive learning environments.
At state primary DD was often used to counteract poor behaviour ie sit disruptive students next to her. I'm not having her spend the next 5 years doing that! She isn't there to manage the behaviour of other students.

Literally I do, but crack on.

You said you didn't understand, someone suggested an explanation, you made it clear that you did understand but were being a bit disingenuous.

We don't need to play duelling CVs to analyse a pretty straightforward conversation, but I'm sure those degrees make you feel super warm while you get worked up over a 35-word post packed with "bullshit bingo" and policy wank like, er, "fiscal".

No, you can’t force equity onto people, they have to opt into it. The country opted into it straight after WW2, but society has since drifted towards increasing narcissism, greed and conflict - so narcissistic that many people like to tell themselves that society can have all the benefits of equity whilst simultaneously encouraging individuals always to put themselves first. We’re now getting to the rats deserting the sinking ship stage, because nobody really trusts anyone else to be working to improve anything, rather than simply working to feather their own nest. Those who are staying behind are currently scooping out the water with colanders whilst being beaten with sticks for being ineffectual.

Convenient, also, how so many people pretend everyone is talking about equality, when everyone is in fact talking about wanting equity.

But there’s the rub… why would people opt in to something that they can get better by opting out…

And again they’re still paying for it just not using it.

Think of it this way… you and a couple of buddies decide that every Friday for lunch you’re going to go in on a pizza together for lunch. You each order a cheese only pizza because you all don’t like the same toppings. This goes on for about a year… then one day you decide ‘hey, I’ve got a taste for anchovies’. So you tell your friends look I’m going to get my own small today, but I don’t want to leave you short so here’s my regular share.

How have the friends been harmed in this situation? Objectively they haven’t.

But here’s what will happen is one day Susan is is going to think ‘damn, I want pepperoni today’ and maybe she offers the same deal. So now you and Susan are both getting your own preference but still kicking in for the others.

At what point do the others in the pizza group start getting resentful that only get cheese pizza when you and Susan are getting the pizza with different toppings?

Now substitute healthcare and education for pizza toppings and it becomes a whole lot more important. Very few people are going to forego their health or children’s education ‘for the greater good’ if it results in less optimal results for them or theirs. Unless it’s forced by other means.

I said I didn’t understand why people got worked up over some types of inequality and not others. i didn’t say I didn’t understand the issues around price education and private healthcare.

Bye x

Inequity, not inequality. I don’t want the same healthcare as someone with cystic fibrosis. And wtaf, comparing a cheese and tomato pizza with access to a doctor?

Umm… that was me who did that. And I compared the two on purpose…people if people will get but hurt over cheese pizza (or in the case of another thread on here this morning chocolate eggs) then does it stand to reason they’d get butthurt because someone else decides to pay for better education and healthcare?

Umm… I’m aware it was you, @saltinesandcoffeecups, I quoted one post and referred to another. Still failing to see what pizza choices have to do with a health service in such a state of collapse, that access to a GP at all is so difficult that people are quite literally told by their practices that their only option is A&E? It’s not about virtual irrelevances, it’s quite literally got to the stage of serious risks to health.

So then how are adding more people to these GP waitlists going to make the situation better?

@saltinesandcoffeecups - and how is talking about cheese and tomato pizza relevant to equity?

And also, how is more people getting seriously ill due to lack of access to any care, let alone adequate care, going to make the situation better? Do you seriously think enough people can afford to pay to see a private GP that this will fix the current situation?

Unlike you.. I have an answer 🙂

people don’t change if you’re talking about pizza or healthcare…they will be resentful if someone else has the ability to have something better or different from them. Even if they are no worse off because of those other people.

What is your answer then because I must have missed it in amongst the pizza chat?

people don’t change if you’re talking about pizza or healthcare…they will be resentful if someone else has the ability to have something better or different from them. Even if they are no worse off because of those other people.

But they don't have to do anything, that's my point. If there are enough of them then the class is good. If there aren't enough of them, that's when they suffer from disruption. At no point are they expected to do anything than exist in the room. Just their very existence there exerts social pressure on the easily influenced to also behave well.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to be gained from school behaviour policy and teachers ability to manage behaviour but it makes life a lot easier for everybody if the social norm for behaviour in the classroom is for good behaviour.

Anyway, this has turned into a massive tangent so let's not derail the thread.

I am a person who literally does forgo private education for their kids which I could afford and also working in or using private healthcare so maybe I just don't understand the mindset.

In the case of healthcare it is not harmless to 'opt out' and use private healthcare services because it is not a whole parallel system. It is a system that can only exist by parasitism of NHS staff and training resources and NHS emergency care and by creating increased private demand it takes staff away from other people who have no choice.

Oh I thought you meant you had an answer to what to do about healthcare

Cheese and tomato pizza? What are you on about?

I quite like the pizza analogy.

I wouldn’t mind a pizza topping NHS but it would be termed Basic, Premium, Elite, I guess:

Basic which everyone gets would be access to A&E, registration with a GP, access to services currently available but no frills at all. Premium would be access to A&E, access to services currently available but more discussion, more choice, more time, pain relief on a par with that available privately, ie, it is better if you have a coloniscopy, GP services with appointments guaranteed within 72 hours, better hospital facilities, etc. Premium would be consultant led, much shorter time frames, unfailingly polite staff, excellent communication and spotless facilities.

Things like diet drugs would be available only for an additional payment.

If people are in hospital, they should pay for their own food unless on benefits. When people part with money standards have to be higher.

@StormingNorman - try reading all the posts since the one quoted and you will be able to work it out all for yourself. 😘

I actually do not feel resentful when people have something I don't have so I dispute that this is some kind of universal truth of human nature. I actually usually feel quite happy for them if whatever they have got makes them happy. I am quite content with what I do have. I don't want a fancy car, designer clothes or a private education for my kids.

It would seem you have some choices…

A-Make the NHS something that is equal or better than private… I believe someone mentioned Germany’s system that appears to draw in those that have the option for private.

B-Lobby the gov’t to outright ban the private option.

C-Ignore the private option and let people make their own choices.

I realistically don’t think the NHS could miraculously turn themselves around for A.

B Would just dump more people into the system that can’t handle what it currently has… so C seems like the best option.

You can basically replace NHS with education in the above options.

The one thing you can’t do is force people to work in these sectors.. so not sure how you’re going to solve that

@saltinesandcoffeecups - I have already given an answer - see above.

You say that as if private education is something people have on a tick list of must haves. We aren't materialistic, we don't have designer clothes/fancy car/expensive house. We do however value education hence the choice of private for DD. We don't expect a return on investment for her education, just that she is happy.