Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Any other Christians annoyed at what society has turned Easter into?

999 replies

Opol · 31/03/2024 14:20

I’m resigned that the same has been done to Christmas. But for me that is “only” the birth of Christ.

As a Roman Catholic, Easter is of far more importance to me. For me, God’s love for humanity meant he sacrificed his only son. Jesus’ resurrection is literally the embodiment of the victory of light over darkness, good over evil etc.

I don’t wish to gate keep but seeing it reduced to Easter baskets and chocolate rabbits is unpleasant to witness. I’m more annoyed at society making everything hollow and superficial via consumerism and over consumption.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
thepastinsidethepresent · 01/04/2024 13:04

No I taught them fact.
Are you saying what I said was wrong?

I'm saying it was selective based on the fact that you chose to 'cherry-pick', as you put it, Christianity as though it's the only faith in whose name atrocities have been committed.

I don't have DC, but if I did I wouldn't attempt to influence them to either believe or not believe. It'd be for them to decide.

And incidentally, if you've been reading my posts properly you'll have noticed that nowhere have I referenced my own beliefs.

SerafinasGoose · 01/04/2024 13:07

Flopsy145 · 01/04/2024 12:04

Pagans aren't monopolising but saying that elements of pagan festivals were used when Christianity was taking over. Plenty of people in the southern hemisphere celebrate a Christian Easter when it's not spring, should they not be allowed?

As a pagan I'm deeply respectful of other faiths. When you dig down to it, most creation myths, spiritual and religious stories overlap and are intertwined, likely throughout all cultures. As, indeed, are philosophy and science. The Celtic goddess Brighid, for example, has close connotations with the goddess Mary. Virgin births are a staple of Egyptian mythology: the Christmas Story didn't happen in cultural isolation. This is why there is no one 'truth', but a multiplicity of them.

IME, most of the objection to the monotheistic faiths I've heard emanting from some claiming a pagan spirtuality is to do with persecution of non-adherents, didacticisim, misogyny and attitudes to women. 'Churching' is particularly repugnant, as is the idea that menstruation is somehow disgusting. Or that 'Eve' is a scapegoat for the fall of humanity: I personally find 'Paradise Lost' - albeit its a derivative - a far more interesting read than 'Genesis'. The reappropriation of Pagan festivals, which are so many and so varied as to be untraceable, by Christianity is the least of the objections I've heard voiced to that faith.

To return to my point, something intrinsic within humans needs our stories in order to live. There have always been periods where secularism has been a dominant discourse, but where that happens, old stories are simply replaced by others. It's true to say that many, many humans across the history of our species have needed their stories, myths and spirituality in some primeval way. Who knows?, this could even have been key to our survival as a species.

I once read the phase, and it stuck with me: 'perhaps the very essence of the obscene is that we are nothing but bodies'. Modern-day humanists seem to have made their peace with that idea; some even find it liberating. But as a species, as a general rule, we have tended recoil from this. We want to think that 'meaning' consists of something more than merely organic matter.

Or, perhaps, there's another kind of peace which comes with never knowing for sure.

PeterGabrielsunderpants · 01/04/2024 13:08

AnotherBankHolidayMonday · 01/04/2024 11:13

Fucking hell.

Who would want any part of a God that handed out such punishments for past sin.

It makes me feel sick. I’d no doubt get deleted if I told you my view, but if some some sick fucker said this to me about a disabled child IRL, they really would know about it.

I meant no offence; sorry if it upset you. Fact is, this is the belief system of millions of people across the globe. It doesn't mean that we have no compassion for people who are born disabled. If this was an obnoxious belief system, I wouldn't be following it. Rather, it offers hope and a sense of empowerment in that an individual's future is shaped by his own actions.

1dayatatime · 01/04/2024 13:08

@ImInTheBathRightNow

"I stand by the fact that how others privately worship is no one else’s business"

And I stand by my opinion (which unlike you I do not state is a fact) that how other people privately worship or do not worship is largely irrelevant if they both receive a positive experience from either going for a walk in the countryside or attending a church.

As for dismissing @Justpontificating post as thread police for the temerity that is not exactly accepting of other opinions is it?

Characterbuilding · 01/04/2024 13:10

TorroFerney · 31/03/2024 20:19

So I was confirmed, I’m 52 now and I’ve no idea what it was for other than the next sacrament to reinforce that I believed in god. Even if I had realised what that meant and objected what could I have done - said no? That’s not how religion works. So I’m dim?

In modern Britain no parish will confirm a child who expresses ambivalence during the classes or says they don’t want to be there. Societal norms (religious or not) have changed.
Sorry your parents didn’t listen to you but it’s hardly the fault of the faith.

MintCocoa · 01/04/2024 13:12

EasternEcho · 01/04/2024 12:58

@mintcocoa There's some difficulty in thrashing this issue without taking into account the context of all what I've said previously on the debate about "Christian values". Slavery may have been mentioned in the old testament, but it was definitely practiced by "Christians" in a relatively not too distant past.

It was practised by greedy people for mercantile reasons, some of whom happened to be Christians. At the time when it was rampant everywhere in the world. Slave markets existed in Africa a long time before American/European slave ships arrived. This is how they got slaves - they were sold to them by other Africans who had already practised this. Perhaps Google ‘transsaharan slave trade’.

Slavery was also abolished by Christians and for religious reasons - because it was seen as not in line with the Christian moral code.

Today slavery is still widespread in many parts of the world, just not in the West.

ImInTheBathRightNow · 01/04/2024 13:12

1dayatatime · 01/04/2024 13:08

@ImInTheBathRightNow

"I stand by the fact that how others privately worship is no one else’s business"

And I stand by my opinion (which unlike you I do not state is a fact) that how other people privately worship or do not worship is largely irrelevant if they both receive a positive experience from either going for a walk in the countryside or attending a church.

As for dismissing @Justpontificating post as thread police for the temerity that is not exactly accepting of other opinions is it?

Thst poster said it first! They interjected and started telling me I wasn’t allow to respond to you, so I responded to them trying to point out the irony of them posting to tell me I wasn’t allowed to bloody post a response. Calling it policing was an attempt to point out what they were doing to me whilst accusing me of it. It was contradictory on their part.

I haven’t stated anything as fact, I’ve stated my own opinion, which like you, I am allowed to do despite you and that other poster trying to tell me I can’t.

Leave me alone now, you’re being deliberately obtrusive. I disagree with you, I’m allowed to as you are allowed to disagree with me - as is perfectly acceptable on a public forum.

ErrolTheDragon · 01/04/2024 13:12

I once read the phase, and it stuck with me: 'perhaps the very essence of the obscene is that we are nothing but bodies'.

That's one of those deepities which sounds profound but is actually pretty stupid, and imo rather offensive of itself. What's 'obscene' about bodies?

Wibblywobblylikejelly · 01/04/2024 13:13

thepastinsidethepresent · 01/04/2024 13:04

No I taught them fact.
Are you saying what I said was wrong?

I'm saying it was selective based on the fact that you chose to 'cherry-pick', as you put it, Christianity as though it's the only faith in whose name atrocities have been committed.

I don't have DC, but if I did I wouldn't attempt to influence them to either believe or not believe. It'd be for them to decide.

And incidentally, if you've been reading my posts properly you'll have noticed that nowhere have I referenced my own beliefs.

Because we're talking about Christinaity. Again point to me the thread by pissed off Jew, Muslims or any other religion.....

I'll wait.

And again what I said was right? The Christians committed these atrocities against other under the name of their God and Church and sanctioned by both for the sole reason that other groups and religions were peacefully practicing their beliefs on their lands.
That's fact. That's what I told my child. That's not cherry picking. There is no nice version or justification for what happened.

SerafinasGoose · 01/04/2024 13:14

ErrolTheDragon · 01/04/2024 13:12

I once read the phase, and it stuck with me: 'perhaps the very essence of the obscene is that we are nothing but bodies'.

That's one of those deepities which sounds profound but is actually pretty stupid, and imo rather offensive of itself. What's 'obscene' about bodies?

Nothing. That wasn't the meaning or the context in which it was read.

Runaway1 · 01/04/2024 13:14

Prunesqualler · 01/04/2024 13:01

I’m far more bothered by the current oppression of women and kids by countries and religions that are currently far far more oppressive and always have been.

Its worth mentioning as an aside the ‘Magdalene hospitals’ you’re referencing didn’t act in isolation. Parents didn’t want their pregnant unmarried daughters in their homes, in those days it brought shame on the family. The families wanted rid of the babies and clearly some sort of punishment for the girls. It’s also worth mentioning there was no state support and no jobs available for unmarried mothers so if the family didn’t want you it was the streets or the church.
There was both a lack of Choice and humanity by both Christians, non Christians and the State.

Its worth pointing out that many cultures and countries still have this attitude today with many so called honour killings, stoning or public whippings as punishment.

Ah well, if there’s worse things going on, I guess I shouldn’t be worried about the institutionalised child sex abuse , restriction of reproductive rights and the enforced slavery and child murder that happened in the Magdalen laundries.

NewMe2024 · 01/04/2024 13:14

I’m agnostic but I understand you. I feel the same about the commercialisation of Christmas. Both are more about commercialism than anything else these days and it’s sad.

Thudercatsrule · 01/04/2024 13:17

I cant stand Easter. Its just commercialism trying to get us to spend money. Got so bored of people asking me if i had Easter plans, i didnt. Not religious and dont eat chocolate!

Would much rather have the 2 days off spread over the year.

EasternEcho · 01/04/2024 13:17

@mintcocoa I am well aware of facts of the slave trade. As I said, this is in context of a nation founded on Christian values and trying to get anyone to pin down what these values are. Maybe try reading the whole thread. I am not interested in whataboutisms. Let's not lose sight of what the thread is about. By fixating on this one post, we are going off on a tangent. I am done explaining this.

ErrolTheDragon · 01/04/2024 13:17

Slavery was also abolished by Christians and for religious reasons - because it was seen as not in line with the Christian moral code.

Eventually, after they'd condoned or supported it for centuries. HmmThere's records of bishops voting in favour of keeping it. Quakers are known as the proponents of abolition but they too were active in the trade.

There's a lot of selective reporting of history I'm afraid.

Justpontificating · 01/04/2024 13:19

1dayatatime · 01/04/2024 13:08

@ImInTheBathRightNow

"I stand by the fact that how others privately worship is no one else’s business"

And I stand by my opinion (which unlike you I do not state is a fact) that how other people privately worship or do not worship is largely irrelevant if they both receive a positive experience from either going for a walk in the countryside or attending a church.

As for dismissing @Justpontificating post as thread police for the temerity that is not exactly accepting of other opinions is it?

Thankyou @1dayatatime

1dayatatime · 01/04/2024 13:21

@Runaway1

"Ah well, if there’s worse things going on, I guess I shouldn’t be worried about the institutionalised child sex abuse , restriction of reproductive rights and the enforced slavery and child murder that happened in the Magdalen laundries."

Well whilst we should recognise and make public "worse things" that have happened historically in order to prevent them occurring again, I do think the focus should be on the "worse things " that are happening today in order to stop them.

For example should more focus be spent on acknowledging the crimes of historical slavery or on stopping the current day slave trading in Sudan?

MintCocoa · 01/04/2024 13:22

Runaway1 · 01/04/2024 13:14

Ah well, if there’s worse things going on, I guess I shouldn’t be worried about the institutionalised child sex abuse , restriction of reproductive rights and the enforced slavery and child murder that happened in the Magdalen laundries.

Sex abuse is 100x likely to happen in public schools.

Magdalen laundries didn’t abuse women in the name of religion but because predators gravitate towards occupations with power and unrestricted access to victims. You get your knowledge about Christianity from films?

As to the reproductive rights, you are free to have an abortion if you want to. Yes, most Christians consider it killing a human but if you aren’t Christian then why should it matter to you?

You could also be worried about how women and LGBT people are treated in some other religions that are bound to gain prominence and influence in the West soon but perhaps the fact that they aren’t Christian is good enough.

Justpontificating · 01/04/2024 13:32

ImInTheBathRightNow · 01/04/2024 13:12

Thst poster said it first! They interjected and started telling me I wasn’t allow to respond to you, so I responded to them trying to point out the irony of them posting to tell me I wasn’t allowed to bloody post a response. Calling it policing was an attempt to point out what they were doing to me whilst accusing me of it. It was contradictory on their part.

I haven’t stated anything as fact, I’ve stated my own opinion, which like you, I am allowed to do despite you and that other poster trying to tell me I can’t.

Leave me alone now, you’re being deliberately obtrusive. I disagree with you, I’m allowed to as you are allowed to disagree with me - as is perfectly acceptable on a public forum.

And for the last time I think.
I pointed out the relevance of @1dayatatime post and what I perceived a ‘ grey area’ meant in terms of 1days post.
I did not say anyone had no right to post, I never would, this is MN we live in a democracy and everyone has a right to live their own lives and speak freely, ( hopefully without deliberately hurting others but that’s another thread )
I said quite the opposite in pointing out 1day had every right to voice opinion here after she was told it was none of her business, by you!

I was the one then called the thread police
Resorting to little digs like this is quite rude and uncalled for.
But if that’s your way so be it.

TheWelshposter · 01/04/2024 13:36

Opol · 31/03/2024 14:33

I would love to see Easter celebrated even in its original Pagan way. The fact it has become void of ANY meaning beyond overconsumption is to me the issue.

Fair enough OP. I was all set to say YABU as it was originally a pagan festival but this makes sense. The world doesn't need extra plastic eggs and packaging for chocolate ones, but I would be all for celebrating Spring in natural ways.

Prunesqualler · 01/04/2024 13:37

Runaway1 · 01/04/2024 13:14

Ah well, if there’s worse things going on, I guess I shouldn’t be worried about the institutionalised child sex abuse , restriction of reproductive rights and the enforced slavery and child murder that happened in the Magdalen laundries.

It’s not about ignoring the past it’s ensuring that we learn from past mistakes and ensure we concern ourselves with current horrors going on every day.

Dwelling on the past only is not going to make the world a better place today or in the future.

TheWelshposter · 01/04/2024 13:41

VolvoFan · 31/03/2024 15:59

This is what happens when people turn their backs on religion and stop believing in God. People believe in materialistic things and political things, ie NHS 'Our world-beating glorious NHS' or climate change, calling people climate change deniers, or LGBTQIA etc. My question is how far away are people going to stray from God before they can't turn back?

Christ is Lord. Christ is King.

Christ is Lord and King of what? People on earth? Because he isn't doing a very good job of protecting them.

thepastinsidethepresent · 01/04/2024 13:41

Because we're talking about Christinaity. Again point to me the thread by pissed off Jew, Muslims or any other religion.....
I'll wait.

You can 'wait' as long as you like. My point is that you're choosing to indoctrinate your children rather than letting them choose for themselves whether religious faith feels relevant to their lives by presenting a balanced perspective.

StaunchMomma · 01/04/2024 13:44

Prunesqualler · 01/04/2024 13:01

I’m far more bothered by the current oppression of women and kids by countries and religions that are currently far far more oppressive and always have been.

Its worth mentioning as an aside the ‘Magdalene hospitals’ you’re referencing didn’t act in isolation. Parents didn’t want their pregnant unmarried daughters in their homes, in those days it brought shame on the family. The families wanted rid of the babies and clearly some sort of punishment for the girls. It’s also worth mentioning there was no state support and no jobs available for unmarried mothers so if the family didn’t want you it was the streets or the church.
There was both a lack of Choice and humanity by both Christians, non Christians and the State.

Its worth pointing out that many cultures and countries still have this attitude today with many so called honour killings, stoning or public whippings as punishment.

The 'shame' and shunning by families of those girls was due to religion, though. These attitudes, as with the issues around 'honour' in Muslim communities, stem from the Church.

Some of the stories of the treatment of orphans, assumably with no 'shame' attached to them, by the Nuns who were supposed to care for them are shocking. I heard a famous author talking about the beating she received by a bunch of Nuns on the eve of her being adopted and how disgusted her Catholic Mother was by the state she was in when taken to her new home.

Catholicism is literally dripping in shame - the shame of the religious so-called leaders,

cakeorwine · 01/04/2024 13:44

thepastinsidethepresent · 01/04/2024 13:41

Because we're talking about Christinaity. Again point to me the thread by pissed off Jew, Muslims or any other religion.....
I'll wait.

You can 'wait' as long as you like. My point is that you're choosing to indoctrinate your children rather than letting them choose for themselves whether religious faith feels relevant to their lives by presenting a balanced perspective.

Personally, I think that no child should be baptised or "enrolled" into ANY religion until they are an adult and can make an informed choice.

Adults around them influence children's minds - as does any school, religious setting or even media and State events they attend.

Children are too young to make informed choices about religion.

Swipe left for the next trending thread