Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

[EggsBenedick]

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

My DS is autistic and I get it, we've ruined lots of days out and meals when he's been uncomfortable and we haven't been able to accommodate him. We just leave, he got better as he got older.

I'm with the restaurant. You have to teach all children, even sen ones, how to behave in public. At what age will they start telling him to keep his top on? How should the restaurant choose who they speak to and who they don't?

I would not have been bothered by an 8 year old eating without a shirt on. I would have been greatly bothered by the parents’ attitude though. This could have been handled much better and I am sure the restaurant staff would have been able to facilitate their needs had they been proactive about it. Their attitude is appalling and I feel sorry for people working in the service industry who have to deal with this.

I get why they wanted him to have his top on, but at the same time it’s not the biggest deal. I wouldn’t leave a complaint though

Somewhere like a pub garden, it wouldn't bother me. In a restaurant, yes clothing is a reasonable requirement. What if he was more comfortable without trousers and pants on too?

I get that having an autistic child is challenging, but there are basic rules of decency that children need to learn. If they can't, don't go to a restaurant unless it's super casual.

The wait staff were probably Muslim, does autism trump religious sensitivity? Nope, their restaurant, their rules.

As for the reviews - pah!

What does “ she indirectly spoke to us” mean?

I’m sorry but you don’t go topless in restaurants whether you are 8 or 38 .

There are signs in various trendy shops saying that people of all genders are welcome. They could add signs saying that if you or your friends and family have additional needs you are not welcome. Sorted!

Mine as autistic. The trouble is you don’t always know what’s going to cause meltdowns so you can end up doing and trying nothing as it’s always a possibility however remote, sometimes you have to handle situations as they arise. If I knew my child wouldn’t eat without top off I wouldn’t go, but if he usually did and this was more of an out of the ordinary incident but I could tell I wasn’t going to be able to force him I’d perhaps do similar to the mother. However I think I’d approach it from a more apologetic point and eat up asap. Obviously if the child was completely naked we’d have to remove him or put clothes on regardless of the screaming it caused

I don't know. Topless boy would not have bothered me as such but its not really appropriate in anything other than a beach cafe. Would an older autistic child be able to take this on board and understand there are times to wear clothing and get on with it or is this something which will always be an issue at any age? I wonder if he sits half naked at school. Up to the restaurant how they feel about it really so I wouldn't have complained .

This.

Everyone should be fully clothed in a restaurant. The parents were being unreasonable.

And while on the subject, the same should apply to supermarkets too (sick of seeing sweaty half naked men while trying to shop as soon as we get a bit of sun!).

It isn't acceptable for anyone to be topless in restaurant. Restaurants do have dress codes.

Absolutely him not having a shirt on doesn't really impact other diners but that isn't really the point. Most of us accept that we need to be clothed at a restaurant.

Obviously the young boy would have been distressed to have his top on but the answer to that is that his parents need to come up with solutions up to and including not frequenting that establishment.

Having an autistic child that finds situations difficult is about planning ahead and coming up with solutions. Not rocking up and hoping others will let things slide. It's not fair on the child and will frequently end up in a distressing situation.

Do you want to explain how/why an 8yo's bare chest is offensive to Muslims?

I've always presumed the request for men to wear tops inside shops/restaurants was more for hygiene than decency.

But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant.

If she said it wouldn't work then it wouldn't work, at least not in that moment, OP.

I can see both sides here, but I do think we need to really listen to the parents of autistic children too. Parenting strategies are, by necessity, different.

I imagine the staff were concerned that he could have hot food spilled on him, but himself or someone else.

I wouldn't be offended by a child without a top on. But the child will grow to be an adult, and will be expected to dress appropriately in public. Even if this means taking a summer vest style top - if he was too hot. Or an apron if he doesn't like getting his clothes dirty.

So I think they need to find a way to manage this now, while he is still young enough to learn that if he wants to eat out then he needs to be dressed appropriately. If he is in school, I imagine he is clothed when eating.

I have an autistic child, part of parenting her is teaching her what's acceptable and what isn't. That has sometimes involved meltdowns, and we have had to leave places. Now is the time to learn appropriate behaviour. When he's an adult man, he won't be able to eat out if he is not wearing a top.

His t shirt was probably off because that is what his parents did whilst eating at home because the parents didnt want his clothes messy he had got into this routine and more than likely not because of his autism. The parents are totally batshit asking you to review the reasturan and its "lack of inclusion " .

How on earth is that grim? It’s perfectly normal - you must be very precious!

But the child didn’t want to eat naked.
Just because a line has to be drawn somewhere doesn’t mean it has to drawn so as to exclude a child who is not indecent and not committing any nuisance.

Where we live wearing tops and shoes is in the bylaws for restaurants and there are sometimes signs reminding people of this, I've also noticed some on holidays sometimes.
I wouldn't particularly care either way but do understand that there are frequently dress codes for restaurants.

I have a severely autistic child who will.just take his clothes off
I wouldn't take him to s restaurant because it,s not fair on him
People do stare and comment. And although he's obvlivious to it its not nice

he was a kid with his top off sitting at a table, it wasn’t like he was wandering around the buffet naked from the waist down.

I wouldn’t have been worked up about it to be honest. As someone else said, better than a fully dressed child screaming their head off.

I’m with the restaurant in this one. I don’t want to see bare chested children in restaurants. Maybe in a poolside cafe in Tenerife but not in March in the UK. Where will it end? Trousers off? A 16 year old with his top off? A 12 year old girl with her top off?

Oh god a bare chested kid. I hope the restaurant is paying for the therapy of all the harmed diners.

I wouldn't leave a review claiming the restaurant were this or that.
I would have expressed sympathy at the time and told the restaurant I wasn't personally offended (if they were worried that I was).
But unless it was unbearably hot in there, I do not think it unreasonable for a 9 year old ND child to keep their top on. They entered with top on.
Parents could have had at least a vest top with them as a compromise.
I say this as the parent of a child with sensory issues regarding layers.