To want every woman in England to vote Tory at the GE

[Hurrydash]

Wow. I started a thread with 1000 posts on a topic in 12 hours and Mumsnet got ‘full’

One more off the bucket list!

So MN told me to start a new thread if I wanted to post anything else. I didn’t particularly but there were some queries raised in the first thread.

Thank you to all first thread posters, even the small minority who were abusive to me and/or my opinions. Coherent arguments may have been more persuasive.

I have read many posts, but not all. I do have work to do!

In answer to some queries:

Yes I was drunk - explains GR typo in the first title not GE. Although that could well have been a Freudian slip too.

I am English living in England.

I’m not an entitled git living in a Stately home eating cucumber sandwiches. Like most I have been hit very hard by mortgage rate and utility price rises.

I restricted my request to English voters because I don’t understand other UK countries voter motivations.

a) Scotland has voted in a party which in my opinion is morally bankrupt (maybe financially too?) and totally incompetent.

b) Wales has elected a party which means when they go for a drive they’ll likely be overtaken by cyclists - maybe very fit joggers too

c) I genuinely don’t understand Northern Ireland politics. Didn’t even know there were no Tories there till reading it on one of the posts.

Totally get why so many won’t vote Tory, but for me freedom of speech is a die in a ditch issue.

Here’s what Angela Eagle is reported to have said will be in the Labour manifesto:

“• Strengthening the law so anti-LGBT+ hate crimes are treated as aggravated offenses”

For this I read anyone stating biological facts risks being banged up. JKR no doubt top of their hit list.

So give me another option to stop this madness other than vote Tory.

If all posters on the first thread had said they weren’t going to vote Labour due to their threat to women’s rights maybe Labour would have paused for thought about their policies. But seems very many women will vote Labour anyway so they don’t have to worry.

Very very happy to vote Labour and kick the Tories out if they will commit unequivocally to protect women’s rights, parents rights and freedom of speech. Otherwise not a chance.

I think I have worked out the problem.

You think that Labour are currently in government and so are responsible for who is in which prison, and more strangely think that the government determines who gets to swim in a race.

You’re so funny!! You seem to have forgotten I’m not a Tory and therefore won’t be defending them.

If Labour wouldn’t dream of presiding over any of this bullshit, why won’t they say so?

Will you therefore be asking MNHQ for your misleading post to be removed then?

Admittedly, the numbers won’t be large on that basis. However, you may be surprised to learn that even with the current bugger’s muddle that is the judicial system when it comes to rape, and the de facto licence to do so we now seem to have in this country, there are actually a few rapists locked up in jail (about 2% of the numbers there should be).

And some of these bastions of civilised society actually try it on and make out they’re trans to get into women’s jails. A large proportion of them in fact.

And our obliging prison service helpfully have been locking them up with women in tiny cells for 23 hours a day. The women’s prison population tends to be very vulnerable, so I’m sure you can imagine the problems with this. Unfortunately, however, for some reason Labour weren’t able to imagine the rather obvious and predictable problems with this, any more than the incumbent government were able to.

Hence lovely Lisa Nandy telling Julia Long she was happy for male rapists to be placed in women’s prisons with vulnerable females. How kind of her.

Exactly. That’s it in a nutshell.

Some of these threads are like toddlers wailing “Why, why can’t I have exactly what I want?”. It wouldn’t be so bad if they were demanding why of all the political parties because none of them are promising what they want but no, all the whying is directed at Labour.

@zendeveloper two things

1. The Tories got in the last few times on the back of Brexit and the promise of the sunlit uplands etc. Maybe not you, but a huge swathe of people that voted for Tories/Brexit genuinely believed everything they were told would improve. This sadly included lots of blue collar workers/MW people, who had been convinced separating from the EU would solve all the ills they were feeling. It didn’t. Many of them have now realised they were fucked over, not just on this, but many things.
2. Its hard to appreciate how ‘well the uk is doing’ when you don’t get to experience it - no or low wage rises, hideous energy bills, unable to get to a GP, roads fucked and fucking our fucked cars we can’t afford to service, trying to improve a child’s future with a university education cripples not you and them with debts for years to come and one bag of basic shopping costs you what 4 bags did 2 years ago.

I’m glad you’re reaping benefits from whatever is happening - I’m definitely not, and I say that as 2 working parents on supposedly half-decent incomes. Husband and I live virtually on leftovers to try to cut back on one bill at least, and live with throws bought off FB marketplace instead of using the heating.

I think the problem is that the majority of rapists are not locked up, let alone convicted

👌Nice try. But none of my posts have been misleading. I’m just not starry-eyed and naive about Labour, just because they’re my pet party.

For sure, but we don’t want even one vulnerable woman to be locked up in prison with a rapist, do we?

And some of these bastions of civilised society actually try it on and make out they’re trans to get into women’s jails. A large proportion of them in fact.

Do you have any evidence for that?

Do you know that the current problem on that one is a Conservative and SNP policy that would appear to be recently changed. I'm sure Labour have their faults, but since the aren't the actual Government and indeed didn't implement create or put forward this policy, it would seem slightly odd to focus on them.

Not even the one that was saying that Labour had locked men up in women's prisons, when in fact that is a Tory government policy?

If that was said, it is misleading @ATerrorofLeftovers.

Far better in fact to leave those rapists out in the community.

I’m upset with Labour because they were my party and they’ve let me and all women down in favour of men. And I thought they were better than this. They should be better than this, shouldn’t they?

I don’t expect anything good from the Tories, I expect them to be arseholes. Therefore it doesn’t come as a surprise. But I did think better of Labour. And now I’m sad. It’s ok to feel sad when sad things happen and people disappoint you. That’s not being a toddler.

This is what was said.

I am sure you and other posters can make their own minds up.

*I’ve had a lot of conversations with people who are utterly incredulous that female prisoners could be locked up with rapists or male swimmers could be permitted to trounce female swimmers in a women’s race. By and large they don’t believe it to begin with and take some convincing. Because, let’s face it, if you’re new to all this, it is pretty unbelievable, isn’t it? It sounds like an absolute joke. Not something that seemingly educated, decent people could be promoting. But once they do realise it’s true, boy do they not like it and think it’s outrageous.

I guess Labour can plough on and hope the electorate don’t wake up before the election. *

Who’s saying that? They just need to go in the men’s jail, as is sensible.

There was a poster earlier suggesting that funding the criminal justice system properly was a waste of time and certainly wouldn't safeguard women.

Wailing “Why?” constantly is behaving exactly like a toddler. So is demanding something more from a political party that’s already a thousand times better than the one we’ve already got. Perfect is the enemy of good.

Waiting for @ATerrorofLeftovers figures on the % of trans. SA in female prisons as opposed to in male prisons. Also the % of SA in the female prisons by trans prisoners in comparison to perpetuated by females.

Then let’s consider the other issues we’ve seen take place under Tories - cuts to police, to MH services, to schools, to healthcare, hell, to prisons: basically anything that the state provides where an individual cannot pay privately. Has it occurred to you that funding these areas properly would weed out the predators whilst leaving innocent trans alone to get on with their lives.

YABU to tell anyone how to use their vote.

Most of my family are public sector workers (NHS and social services) and this has the biggest impact on how I choose to vote.

Never in a million, billion, trillion years would I or could I ever vote for those heartless, useless bastards.
They haven't got a clue and don't give a toss anyway how ordinary people live day today Some of my family were miners in the 70's and 80's during Thatcherism.Now she was evil !!

Oh, now I think I know what you’re getting at. I was mid conversation with you and knew you and anyone else following the thread would get it. It didn’t occur to me for a second that you would get anxious lest anyone should think Labour was in power and had caused this.

I mean, everyone knows the Tories have been in power for nigh on 14 years. I didn’t think I had to spell that out.

The issue is that now it’s come to light and a fuss has been made, the government have made moves to stamp this out (not enough, but some). However, some of us don’t trust Labour not to row back on this, because of their lack of reassurance on that and their stated stance over the last few years.

Hope that’s clear now and you’re no longer worried Labour might be tarred with the Tories doings. FWIW, i doubt Keir would be worried. As Sooty rightly points out, women’s rights aren’t something he’s bothered about.

Why are you asking for figures? Is there a magic figure under which the women locked up in jails with male rapists are acceptable collateral damage?

How many women being raped is acceptable to you?

Some of us have standards, Blossometoes, not just for how we’re treated ourselves, but how we want others to be treated.

But I know you will just excuse Labour over and over regardless. I’ve only ever seen you post enthusiastic approval for them.

I’m not someone who blindly follows a party like a football team, cheering them on regardless. When I see something egregious, I fight against it. If you want to view that as being like a toddler and label me with that in the hope of sticking the knife in and wounding me, be my guest if that’s what floats your boat.