To want every woman in England to vote Tory at the GE

[Hurrydash]

Wow. I started a thread with 1000 posts on a topic in 12 hours and Mumsnet got ‘full’

One more off the bucket list!

So MN told me to start a new thread if I wanted to post anything else. I didn’t particularly but there were some queries raised in the first thread.

Thank you to all first thread posters, even the small minority who were abusive to me and/or my opinions. Coherent arguments may have been more persuasive.

I have read many posts, but not all. I do have work to do!

In answer to some queries:

Yes I was drunk - explains GR typo in the first title not GE. Although that could well have been a Freudian slip too.

I am English living in England.

I’m not an entitled git living in a Stately home eating cucumber sandwiches. Like most I have been hit very hard by mortgage rate and utility price rises.

I restricted my request to English voters because I don’t understand other UK countries voter motivations.

a) Scotland has voted in a party which in my opinion is morally bankrupt (maybe financially too?) and totally incompetent.

b) Wales has elected a party which means when they go for a drive they’ll likely be overtaken by cyclists - maybe very fit joggers too

c) I genuinely don’t understand Northern Ireland politics. Didn’t even know there were no Tories there till reading it on one of the posts.

Totally get why so many won’t vote Tory, but for me freedom of speech is a die in a ditch issue.

Here’s what Angela Eagle is reported to have said will be in the Labour manifesto:

“• Strengthening the law so anti-LGBT+ hate crimes are treated as aggravated offenses”

For this I read anyone stating biological facts risks being banged up. JKR no doubt top of their hit list.

So give me another option to stop this madness other than vote Tory.

If all posters on the first thread had said they weren’t going to vote Labour due to their threat to women’s rights maybe Labour would have paused for thought about their policies. But seems very many women will vote Labour anyway so they don’t have to worry.

Very very happy to vote Labour and kick the Tories out if they will commit unequivocally to protect women’s rights, parents rights and freedom of speech. Otherwise not a chance.

Yes, I think Labour will perform differently, I don't expect miracles but a change in the right direction.

You seem happy enough with the current situation, that's fine, own it, don't blame it on Labour

Does anyone know how the current government's plans to criminalise being homeless help to safeguard the vulnerable, whether they be men, women or children?

I’m not sure they will be better than the Tories. Not when they’re not committing to safeguarding women’s rights.

In the event they fail to do this, they could actually be worse.

This is not what I want. I want them to do the decent thing and commit unequivocally to safeguarding the rights of women. This should be a very basic ask.

Why won’t they do this?

@ATerrorofLeftovers why are you ignoring my posts where I have listed a variety of ways that the next Labour government will safeguard women's rights?

See, the problem, Jess, with voting for them on the basis of the crumbs they’re offering, without expecting them to do the decent thing, is that if they’re voted in, they’ll say they have a mandate on that basis. After all, you all voted them in on that basis, didn’t you? So they’ll say it’s what you want. And they’ll plough on on that basis. And then it’ll be too late.

Its not crumbs to have functioning health, education, social care and criminal justice systems. It is hugely important to safeguarding everyone.

I would be delighted if the party that wins the next election stuck to its manifesto pledges, it is certainly more than the party that won the last election has done.

I’m sorry. I feel I’ve answered that point. For the last time, it’s because they won’t be able to achieve what they say they will (all those things you’re listing and want - as do I) without adequately defining and safeguarding women. And failing to do this will cause other harms not on your list.

In that vein: why do you keep ignoring my repeated question of why Labour are refusing to clearly and unequivocally commit to safeguarding biological women?

Why will they not do so, do you think?

How can Jess answer that question unless you think she is Keir Starmer?

Can you answer why the Tories are refusing to do the same?

For the sake of clarity @ATerrorofLeftovers
Does having functioning
a) health service
b) social care
c) education system
d) criminal justice system

safeguard women, children (and men)?

Feel free to answer each part separately if you like.

The crumbs refer to the weasel words when they try to fudge answering the questions about women’s rights. They clearly think we’re all idiots.

How will they deliver the things you mention if they refuse to define women as biological women?

EG: How will social care work well for women if female care receivers aren’t able to specify they only want female carers to provide intimate care, for example?

I'm LGBT+

What kind of world is this, where dealing with hate crimes against me or my community is seen as a negative!!

No surprises but I won't vote Tory. Never have. Never will

Because this narrow stuff about biological women, while important to single issue voters, isn't considered to be of prime importance, and it seems most of the electorate agrees. It seems the majority of the electorate wants the incoming government to prioritise the areas @JessS1990 has highlighted.

I’ve answered this above.

For the sake of clarity: Why won’t Labour unequivocally commit to safeguarding the rights of biological women?

What about healthcare?

Should I insist that the surgeon who operates on my teenage daughter next is a woman, because that surgery is going to be hugely intimate?

And I've answered that above.

@ATerrorofLeftovers are those areas important to safeguarding or not?

Healthcare, social care, education, criminal justice system?

Well, another thread means another opportunity to say no, I won't vote Tory. I'm not stupid or callous enough to do so.

This government has hollowed out the country. This government hates women. It hates poor women, in particular. And poor women in an ethnic minority? Special kind of hate.

The Tory party are not friends of women and everyone fucking knows it. These threads won't change a thing.

Each of these threads do though allow us to point again all the callous things that the current government has done to harm women.

The electorate do find these issues important for sure.

But if you think they don’t think issues of gender and women’s rights are important you’re mistaken. When people understand what’s been going on and what’s at stake, the vast majority very much do.

Don’t forget, many people are still in ignorance as to what’s going on. It’s been well hidden if you’re not on certain social media. The BBC take pains not to report om a lot of it, for example. So if you mostly get your news from The Guardian, the BBc and Channel 4 news, you’ll have been kept deliberately in ignorance of it all.

I’ve had a lot of conversations with people who are utterly incredulous that female prisoners could be locked up with rapists or male swimmers could be permitted to trounce female swimmers in a women’s race. By and large they don’t believe it to begin with and take some convincing. Because, let’s face it, if you’re new to all this, it is pretty unbelievable, isn’t it? It sounds like an absolute joke. Not something that seemingly educated, decent people could be promoting. But once they do realise it’s true, boy do they not like it and think it’s outrageous.

I guess Labour can plough on and hope the electorate don’t wake up before the election. It’s a bit of a gamble though. Particularly as many of us are doing our bit to publicise it all.

Eh? That’s my point!! They are important to it. Why is exactly why women need to be defined as biological women. Or there is no sodding safeguarding. What’s so difficult?

Why won’t Labour commit unequivocally to defining women as biological women?

If it’s as Sooty says, simply because they can, that’s incredibly depressing.

Are you nuts? Do you really think the Tories care about women? They have utter disdain for everyone other than their Tory pals. They are happy to let the country go to ruin and extract every iota of wealth they can while allowing the poor to die and the middle classes to get poorer. If you want to hand the Tories votes over this one issue then you are allowing them to laugh at your stupidity.

Yes. I'm all in favour of that.

Thank-you Sooty, and I appreciate your answer, depressing though it is (not surprising though- basically it’s once again men shafting women just because they can, as they have done for millennia). However, my question was actually directed to Jess.

Excellent, so we are in agreement that when Labour make very necessary changes to social care, health, education and the criminal justice system that will improve safeguarding.

Given the current rape conviction rate, its highly unlikely that anyone will get locked up with a rapist.