To want every woman in England to vote Tory at the GE

[Hurrydash]

Wow. I started a thread with 1000 posts on a topic in 12 hours and Mumsnet got ‘full’

One more off the bucket list!

So MN told me to start a new thread if I wanted to post anything else. I didn’t particularly but there were some queries raised in the first thread.

Thank you to all first thread posters, even the small minority who were abusive to me and/or my opinions. Coherent arguments may have been more persuasive.

I have read many posts, but not all. I do have work to do!

In answer to some queries:

Yes I was drunk - explains GR typo in the first title not GE. Although that could well have been a Freudian slip too.

I am English living in England.

I’m not an entitled git living in a Stately home eating cucumber sandwiches. Like most I have been hit very hard by mortgage rate and utility price rises.

I restricted my request to English voters because I don’t understand other UK countries voter motivations.

a) Scotland has voted in a party which in my opinion is morally bankrupt (maybe financially too?) and totally incompetent.

b) Wales has elected a party which means when they go for a drive they’ll likely be overtaken by cyclists - maybe very fit joggers too

c) I genuinely don’t understand Northern Ireland politics. Didn’t even know there were no Tories there till reading it on one of the posts.

Totally get why so many won’t vote Tory, but for me freedom of speech is a die in a ditch issue.

Here’s what Angela Eagle is reported to have said will be in the Labour manifesto:

“• Strengthening the law so anti-LGBT+ hate crimes are treated as aggravated offenses”

For this I read anyone stating biological facts risks being banged up. JKR no doubt top of their hit list.

So give me another option to stop this madness other than vote Tory.

If all posters on the first thread had said they weren’t going to vote Labour due to their threat to women’s rights maybe Labour would have paused for thought about their policies. But seems very many women will vote Labour anyway so they don’t have to worry.

Very very happy to vote Labour and kick the Tories out if they will commit unequivocally to protect women’s rights, parents rights and freedom of speech. Otherwise not a chance.

I'm re-posting this for @snowbird21.

I was quite literally asked to go away with my opinions by the posters directly above because I came in 2010 with my "tuppence", was not born here, don't have generations of native people who were contributing to the UK behind me. Fair enough.

@snowbird21 if you think that all the Tories' policies which have made women poorer, more vulnerable and less well supported matter less than identity politics and culture wars, fill your boots.

You're being told that your opinions are questionable because you appear blind to the deterioration in the UK over the past 14 years, and you appear not to care that there are now more people living in poverty, whether relative or absolute, than 14 years ago. Nothing to do with your nationality, everything to do with your apparent lack of a functioning moral compass.

Just out of interest, what exactly is your IQ OP?

Not true. All you’ve seen of this country has been under a Tory government. It was simply pointed out to you that some of us have experienced a UK that was an eminently better place to live. Your “pure born native” comment was incredibly offensive.

I have no idea who to vote for, but I will never vote Tory. Would rather shit in my hands, clap and lick them clean than do that. Their rule has ruined the lives of many, friends and family included, and my own. It's a bit like trying to choose which gun to take your own life with - a precise, silenced pistol, or the tory option AKA a sawn-off shotgun. Pick who you want to pick, but I know for a fact I won't be checking their box on voting day.

Stop twisting their words, not one person mentioned generations of native people who contributed to the UK behind you.

You were told, rightly, that your experience and opinion (or tuppence-worth) having been here since 2010 wasn’t comparable to people who were born here and lived here for decades. You have seen a small snapshot, and have no experience of what the UK was like prior to 2010 and the subsequent decline.

Twisting the narrative to suit yourself is a Tory trait though, so I can’t say I’m surprised.

A round of applause!

That is not quite what was said, though is it?

You have sent some time and effort telling all of those of us who have been here before 2010 that the UK has not declined under the Tories. For example, you said the NHS was in a poor state in 2010 when we all know it wasn't and several of us presented proof, which you dismissed.

You are totally entitled to have your opinions, but telling people they are wrong about their lived experience is not acceptable. That's what people have pulled you up on. Nothing to do with you not being, as you called it, "a purebred native".

Do you have views on other things? How do you think the Tories are doing in terms of issues that affect women's interests?

I don't really think saying "I turned up in 2010" and I've given my tuppence is quite comparable to those of us who have lived and invested in the UK for generations.

I have zero political allegiance or political rights, as I already said, I am not a "Tory". From only the personal perspective, I'd be sad to see leftists win, I think it will be a start of a very bad period for the country that I have quite a lot of tender feelings for. My children are half English, but thankfully have also options elsewhere due to being multilingual and well exposed to other cultures, so it indeed does not affect us so much, so we won't be picking up the costs of any decline.

I'm actually mixed British/German but thank you for making this about nationalisn - which it isn't at all. Resulting to petty insults really disempowers you of any creditable arguments. If you read my post properly, I mentioned people who have been in this country for decades/ have been born here.

Except the quite astronomical decline has already happened

So you don't care about the people you live alongside. Explains a lot.

I won't be voting at all. Labour can't be trusted with my rights and frankly, I don't think they intend to improve conditions for the disabled (they have said as much) or anyone else. They seem only to care about idpol now.

Starmer is a vacuous moral coward who I wouldn't trust to run a bath.

The Tories are everything people on this thread have said they are and worse and Labour will get in anyway. So, I'll just have to hope they baulk when they have to put their money where their mouth is on self ID and the GRA. But I'm not hopeful tbh.

Either option is objectively terrible

So... 🤷‍♀️ I'm out.

I'd be sad to see leftists win, I think it will be a start of a very bad period for the country

1. Labour are not 'leftist' by any means. They're centrist leaning centre right.
2. You have been told by very many people who were there at the time that the last Labour government made very many things a great deal better for very many people.
3. If you can't see the past 14 years have been bad for those not shielded by comfortable finances, you've been wilfully not looking or blind.

@ilovesooty
I have lots of views on a wide range of issues, I really felt at home with New Labou under Tony Blair but feel I have no political "home" now - to be fair I felt like that when Jeremy Corbyn was leader but at that time I could not have voted for Boris Johnson. The gender issue to me is the most important for this generation that is why I am thinking I will vote Tory

What have the Tories actually done to safeguard women ? They’ve had 14 years. I’ve asked several times on this thread and not one person has answered

So you have no experience of living under a different government?

That would be because the answer is 'fuck all', and the single issue voters know it.

Agree. Just an excuse to vote Tory but dressed up in the whole ‘concern about women’ thing. ‘

Exactly !! So why the fuck do people think that will change ???!!

Labour's position on the gender critical issue goes against my beliefs, I am not saying I think the Tory's are fantastic but on this issue they align more with my views and this issue to me is fundamental for me.

But they’ve had 14 years to prove they align with your views ?? They’ve done nothing, you really think they give a fuck ??