To want every woman in England to vote Tory at the GE

[Hurrydash]

Wow. I started a thread with 1000 posts on a topic in 12 hours and Mumsnet got ‘full’

One more off the bucket list!

So MN told me to start a new thread if I wanted to post anything else. I didn’t particularly but there were some queries raised in the first thread.

Thank you to all first thread posters, even the small minority who were abusive to me and/or my opinions. Coherent arguments may have been more persuasive.

I have read many posts, but not all. I do have work to do!

In answer to some queries:

Yes I was drunk - explains GR typo in the first title not GE. Although that could well have been a Freudian slip too.

I am English living in England.

I’m not an entitled git living in a Stately home eating cucumber sandwiches. Like most I have been hit very hard by mortgage rate and utility price rises.

I restricted my request to English voters because I don’t understand other UK countries voter motivations.

a) Scotland has voted in a party which in my opinion is morally bankrupt (maybe financially too?) and totally incompetent.

b) Wales has elected a party which means when they go for a drive they’ll likely be overtaken by cyclists - maybe very fit joggers too

c) I genuinely don’t understand Northern Ireland politics. Didn’t even know there were no Tories there till reading it on one of the posts.

Totally get why so many won’t vote Tory, but for me freedom of speech is a die in a ditch issue.

Here’s what Angela Eagle is reported to have said will be in the Labour manifesto:

“• Strengthening the law so anti-LGBT+ hate crimes are treated as aggravated offenses”

For this I read anyone stating biological facts risks being banged up. JKR no doubt top of their hit list.

So give me another option to stop this madness other than vote Tory.

If all posters on the first thread had said they weren’t going to vote Labour due to their threat to women’s rights maybe Labour would have paused for thought about their policies. But seems very many women will vote Labour anyway so they don’t have to worry.

Very very happy to vote Labour and kick the Tories out if they will commit unequivocally to protect women’s rights, parents rights and freedom of speech. Otherwise not a chance.

It was a personal experience against personal experience - only that. But thank you for linking some facts.

From the table you posted, which one you think is the most relevant metric? What is the reason of having #1 on "quality of care" if it does not lead to "healthy lives"?

@zendeveloper

Because that is where the Tories are steering the NHS. Underfund it, privatise it, sell it off to their mates. It is in the state it's in because of years of Tory power, not despite it.

If you look at the UK and the US, both rank lowest on "healthy lives". It is related to obesity I believe.

You have been shown how child poverty, one issue alone, is rising. That almost a third of all UK children are living in poverty.

You have been given the information about services failing - I work in social care. Services to support vulnerable people - those fleeing domestic violence, homeless people, substance misuse services, mental health services have all been cut. Vital services have closed, in staggering numbers.

Police staff have been cut, I think the number was around 20,000 but I could be wrong.

You claimed the NHS was broken in 2010 and were proven wrong, with data, and so changed to anecdotal evidence instead.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, from the top of my head. The information regarding figures is out there, but still you stand firm that the UK is doing ok and that you haven’t been proven wrong?

Torys have screwed over care workers (mostly women),the nhs and anyone in need of social care. So no I won’t vote for them.

I don't understand why you are twisting my words. I said that (1) the relative metric is not quite appropriate in the first place to measure the levels of deprivation, as just by the definition of it, the most enlightened countries still have a very large % of the population in "poverty" (2) the problems the world is facing now (since 2020, really) are global in nature and affect all the countries, and hardly the fault of the Conservative party in the UK.

But yes, I am an evil capitalist who drinks poor children's blood so is interested in there being more of them. Busted.

“b) Wales has elected a party which means when they go for a drive they’ll likely be overtaken by cyclists - maybe very fit joggers too”

If that’s the worst you can come up with for Wales I’ll stick with Welsh Labour thanks. Might be a daft policy but it was intended to improve safety and air quality. Far better than Tory twits drinking wine and laughing at us during lockdown.

Drakeford, Gething and his pals actually tried to do their best for our people. Unlike the Westminster Tory scum.

I totally agree. I am fed up with Wales being made out to be some sort of hell hole by the Tories and their supporters.

And I counteracted it with other numbers - that the absolute poverty levels have decreased since 2010, that I got absolutely zero response to apart from statements that people just don't trust the DWP data.

Everything else has indeed been anecdotal evidence from posters. My neighbour used to work in social care (now moved into the local government), she's a Conservative and doesn't see the same picture as you do. Her views on the root causes of social ills are also different. I guess everyone sees things through their own lens.

The UK is doing ok. It always surprised me how quick British people are to bash their own country. It is a very good one, really. Some things are not ideal, yes - but they are not ideal in other countries too.

The UK is doing ok. It always surprised me how quick British people are to bash their own country

There are 4 countries in the UK.

Her views on the root causes of social ills are also different

What are her views @zendeveloper ?

You are right, but it is equally applicable to all four of them. I should have said "state". English is my fifth language, I am not yet 100% fluent.

Your friend is an outlier, if she even exists. I don’t know a single person working in my profession, or in other services, that share that view.

Outcomes in later life are determined in childhood more often than not, and aside from ACE and trauma, poverty is one of the biggest barriers children face in going on to have a positive outcome.

You are clearly living in a bubble and that’s fine, not every single person disagreeing with you on this thread is wrong. Your opinion is largely irrelevant as you said yourself because you are unable to vote, but hopefully you have learned a little from this thread.

Excuse my curiosity, but are you an actuary?

I bet -

Laziness
Shit parenting/single parents
Poverty is their own fault and they should just work harder
Maybe a bit of benefit bashing?

The potholes in the roads in our English town make 20mph zones redundant

No, no, no, no! To my dying days I will never ever vote Tory! I’ll take my chances with Starmer thank you! And hopefully pressure for PR! And rejoining the EU!!

I did not find any stats on social care, but two out of five health care workers (would it be a fair comparison? I think a reasonably proxy) seem to have vote Conservative recently. So these people probably do exist, and maybe you are also living in a bubble - but then, aren't most of us?

Two in five healthcare workers vote Conservative in local elections – NursingNotes

I went over one at less than 20mph this week. I wrecked my tyre and wheel. I was told later that at least one other person this week has done the same thing. The roads near us are disgraceful - a direct result of the cuts in central government funding.

You're trying to derail the thread. This is a thread about how people intend to vote in the upcoming GE. You're talking about the "hard left" and "communism" but those options are not on the table in this country.

I mean, unless you suspect politicians instructing the DWP to cook the numbers, I'd say it is quite reliable.

This did give me a laugh though so thanks for that.

Time to bring this out again.

https://assets.kingsfund.org.uk/f/256914/x/54a86c88b5/high_performing_nhs_2010.pdf

And she doesn't even have a vote so her banging on about the alleged hard left isn't relevant.

Oh thank you @blossomtoes I was trying to remember that report, but couldn't remember where it was from. Must bookmark it for future reference!

And I suppose you might be mostly OK with the Conservatives if you earn eye watering amounts of money, pay for medical insurance and go abroad to have your teeth fixed.