To want every woman in England to vote Tory at the GE

[Hurrydash]

Wow. I started a thread with 1000 posts on a topic in 12 hours and Mumsnet got ‘full’

One more off the bucket list!

So MN told me to start a new thread if I wanted to post anything else. I didn’t particularly but there were some queries raised in the first thread.

Thank you to all first thread posters, even the small minority who were abusive to me and/or my opinions. Coherent arguments may have been more persuasive.

I have read many posts, but not all. I do have work to do!

In answer to some queries:

Yes I was drunk - explains GR typo in the first title not GE. Although that could well have been a Freudian slip too.

I am English living in England.

I’m not an entitled git living in a Stately home eating cucumber sandwiches. Like most I have been hit very hard by mortgage rate and utility price rises.

I restricted my request to English voters because I don’t understand other UK countries voter motivations.

a) Scotland has voted in a party which in my opinion is morally bankrupt (maybe financially too?) and totally incompetent.

b) Wales has elected a party which means when they go for a drive they’ll likely be overtaken by cyclists - maybe very fit joggers too

c) I genuinely don’t understand Northern Ireland politics. Didn’t even know there were no Tories there till reading it on one of the posts.

Totally get why so many won’t vote Tory, but for me freedom of speech is a die in a ditch issue.

Here’s what Angela Eagle is reported to have said will be in the Labour manifesto:

“• Strengthening the law so anti-LGBT+ hate crimes are treated as aggravated offenses”

For this I read anyone stating biological facts risks being banged up. JKR no doubt top of their hit list.

So give me another option to stop this madness other than vote Tory.

If all posters on the first thread had said they weren’t going to vote Labour due to their threat to women’s rights maybe Labour would have paused for thought about their policies. But seems very many women will vote Labour anyway so they don’t have to worry.

Very very happy to vote Labour and kick the Tories out if they will commit unequivocally to protect women’s rights, parents rights and freedom of speech. Otherwise not a chance.

She sees "a functional society". I think a visit to Specsavers is indicated.

To the poster who accused me of hyperbole on the Welsh 20 mph speed limit.Cyclists can do way more than that.
I’m that poster, @Hurrydash
I’m aware bikes can go faster. The hyperbole is that ‘going for a drive’ it would affect you. It’s in areas where traffic and pedestrians co-exist, not everywhere. For example I drove from the bridge to The Mumbles (far side of Swansea) the other day. I only picked up a 20mph zone as I entered Mumbles.
As an aside, the average speed in Cardiff before the limit was about 19mph anyway…

There is no point in arguing with people who lack any capacity for empathy or compassion. You will never get through to them because they are incapable of stepping outside their own personal situation.

It may not actually be their fault - I'm not sure that people can just decide to be more emotionally intelligent, and in any case, the lack of emotional intelligence probably makes them completely unaware of their deficiency in the first place.

I haven't been involved in either thread, but I am laughing at the idea that someone encouraging people to vote Tory, is criticising the SNP for being morally bankrupt.

Pot and kettle springs to mind.

I'm sure I'm not the first to make this observation...

Wait, but it does look like the absolute poverty numbers improved (i.e. fewer people in destitution) from 2010 to now? Despite the population growth?

The problem is, what you are saying is absolutely incorrect.

If you came here and spoke the truth about the handling of COVID, the state of society, the cuts to vital services, the problems in education, the money to Tory donors, the fact that poverty (both relative and absolute) HAS increased, that homelessness has increased, that austerity hasn’t worked, that the economy is trashed - if you accepted all of that and said you STILL wanted to vote Tory then fair enough, you’re well informed and have made a decision based on accurate information, nobody could argue with that. We might disagree, but you would be entitled to vote how you wished if you had taken the time to actually do some research.

It’s the lies I can’t stand - you cannot pretend that the UK is doing well and everything is fine. You are wrong, and when you are being told you are wrong, you are doubling down. If you don’t KNOW something, go and learn about it!

What have Labour got to do with communist rule? That’s completely illogical.

Absolute poverty has increased for the second year in a row.

I would have to look into the years previous to that.

What about the figures for the number of children living in destitution? You’ll note I haven’t shouted slogans or resorted to personal attacks. By the way, you should report the latter.

Why when a change is discussed, the US system is always shown as the only alternative?
Pretty much the whole of Europe has significantly better healthcare systems. Both based on the numbers / results, and from anecdotal accounts of family and friends who live in many different countries there.

I feel fairly confident that the majority do not want to keep the NHS for ‘sentimental reasons’. More for life or death reasons.

I also wouldn’t tout the EU as being better after seeing the results of (outdated) recent surgery in France that we are now correcting in the NHS.

They were seen quickly in France though…

Pretty much the whole of Europe spends more on healthcare than the UK.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/

I would rather stick pins in my eyes than vote Tory. In such a rich country, how was thus ever allowed to happen. Every one of them should hang their heads in shame.

From the Trussell Trust:-
’ Until around 2009–10 food banks (charitable organisations distributing free food parcels) used to be a very marginal phenomenon in the UK. However, the number of food banks increased very rapidly in the 2010s. The Trussell Trust, which support the largest network food banks in the UK, had around 35 food bank centres in 2010/11, 650 in 2013/14 and nearly 1300 in 2019/20. (By food bank centres we mean individual venues. A food bank may have more than one such venue). The dynamics of the volume of food aid broadly followed this trend, with 61,000 food parcels distributed in 2010/11, 0.9 m in 2013/14 and 1.9 m in 2019/20. Less is known about food banks operating independently of the Trussell Trust network (estimated to represent around 40–45% of all UK food banks, many of which are members of the Independent Food Aid Network) but one study suggests that they underwent a similar growth.
Reliance on food banks is a symptom of household food insecurity, particularly its severe type: around 80% of people referred to food banks in the Trussell Trust network are severely food insecure. ‘Household food insecurity’ is an established, internationally used concept and is defined here as ‘a household-level economic and social condition of limited or uncertain access to adequate food.

You must be joking! I’d rather not vote

It would seem that there are around 400K fewer children living in destitution in 2023 compared to 2010 (here is a reference to a debate where it is mentioned). Despite the total number of children probably increasing significantly (I am a bit lazy now to do the numbers based on the ONS data, but i don't believe this would be disputed).

It is true that the numbers got worse since 2019, i.e. the clusterfuck covid and inflation and war. I checked stats for two other European countries very quickly, and the movement is in the same direction for the same period - sadly, these issues were / are global.

I’m not interested in MPs’ spoutings in the Commons. Where are the stats?

I do not think the amount of nominal spend necessarily strictly correlates with how good or accessible the healthcare is. Because in the data you linked, the US spends far more than most.

We were talking about Europe, were we not? Every you’re confronted with some facts you change course.

Here, by the way, are some stats on destitution.

https://www.if.org.uk/2023/12/13/uk-child-poverty-has-increased-by-20-over-seven-years/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/27/public-satisfaction-with-the-nhs-at-its-lowest-ever-level-poll-shows

Satisfaction has plummeted by 29% since before Covid-19 emerged in early 2020 and by an enormous 46% from the highest-ever 70% recorded in 2010, when the Conservatives took power. It fell five points alone from 29% in 2022 to the 24% seen last year.

However, the results showed that, despite the NHS’s struggles, an overwhelming majority of the public remains committed to its founding principles – 91% believe it should be free of charge when people need it while 82% said that it should be funded primarily from taxation and available to everyone, regardless of income.

“The public do not want a different model; they just want the one they have to work,” said Wellings.

There is a report on living conditions from DWP that they discussed. Here's a full statement from the Secretary for Work and Pensions overseeing it, and it links to the report itself.

I mean, unless you suspect politicians instructing the DWP to cook the numbers, I'd say it is quite reliable.

Written statements - Written questions, answers and statements - UK Parliament

Zen says it will be the beginning of the end if the country shifts left and they'll probably have to leave as a result, immediately after listing a bunch of left leaning policies as examples of how society is functioning well.

Couldn't make it up really.

I’d rather believe UNICEF.

I change the course?

I said that the spend on healthcare does not necessarily correlate with the quality of the healthcare system, with the US being the prime extreme example of that. Show me the waiting times, health outcomes, morbidity and mortality - and let's discuss the quality of healthcare, not the nominal amount spent.