To want every woman in England to vote Tory at the GE

[Hurrydash]

Wow. I started a thread with 1000 posts on a topic in 12 hours and Mumsnet got ‘full’

One more off the bucket list!

So MN told me to start a new thread if I wanted to post anything else. I didn’t particularly but there were some queries raised in the first thread.

Thank you to all first thread posters, even the small minority who were abusive to me and/or my opinions. Coherent arguments may have been more persuasive.

I have read many posts, but not all. I do have work to do!

In answer to some queries:

Yes I was drunk - explains GR typo in the first title not GE. Although that could well have been a Freudian slip too.

I am English living in England.

I’m not an entitled git living in a Stately home eating cucumber sandwiches. Like most I have been hit very hard by mortgage rate and utility price rises.

I restricted my request to English voters because I don’t understand other UK countries voter motivations.

a) Scotland has voted in a party which in my opinion is morally bankrupt (maybe financially too?) and totally incompetent.

b) Wales has elected a party which means when they go for a drive they’ll likely be overtaken by cyclists - maybe very fit joggers too

c) I genuinely don’t understand Northern Ireland politics. Didn’t even know there were no Tories there till reading it on one of the posts.

Totally get why so many won’t vote Tory, but for me freedom of speech is a die in a ditch issue.

Here’s what Angela Eagle is reported to have said will be in the Labour manifesto:

“• Strengthening the law so anti-LGBT+ hate crimes are treated as aggravated offenses”

For this I read anyone stating biological facts risks being banged up. JKR no doubt top of their hit list.

So give me another option to stop this madness other than vote Tory.

If all posters on the first thread had said they weren’t going to vote Labour due to their threat to women’s rights maybe Labour would have paused for thought about their policies. But seems very many women will vote Labour anyway so they don’t have to worry.

Very very happy to vote Labour and kick the Tories out if they will commit unequivocally to protect women’s rights, parents rights and freedom of speech. Otherwise not a chance.

So you are not seeing the massive and deliberate underfunding of the public sector ? Those of us who work in it are seeing it every day

I don't think you are capitalist Tory scum, but I do think you are very naive about what the UK is like for very many people who aren't cushioned by large amounts of money. I also think that your 'I'm alright Jack' attitude is lacking in morals or empathy, but that's pretty normal for Tory leaning people.

I don't have "wealth" lol, or need any validation. I've been through my time of houseshares and yellow sticker food during the early working years, and had to stay at home when I could not afford childcare.

The NHS is a mess because it is an outdated system that doesn't work anymore in the modern world, and keeping it for sentimental reasons is plainly stupid

You won't be aware, but the NHS was doing pretty well in 2010. Andrew Lansley decided it needed "reforming".

I don't have a "large amounts of money". I am net nil after expenses and other sensible things like pensions, for the last two years all my surplus goes to voluntary causes (although not in the UK - back in my home country).

If you pay over £100k a year in tax you most definitely have wealth. Over 4 million children live in poverty in this country and you think it’s OK?

https://cpag.org.uk/news/official-child-poverty-statistics-350000-more-children-poverty-and-numbers-will-rise

Ah, I saw the definition of "poverty" by that action group. It is not poverty, really.

I absolutely would not vote for the Conservative Party, cannot imagine any way I ever would.
Apologies for not yet rtft (or the previous one) but I'm not sure I understand voting based on a single issue.
Claiming to 'know what a woman is' makes no difference really if they're fully prepared to screw over said women with awful policies.
Perhaps they appeal to some when looking at the problems around the gender debate but if they win at the next GE we get more of the same shit we've had for years and everything will get worse for the majority of Men, Women and children in this country.

Ah, I saw the definition of "poverty" by that action group. It is not poverty, really.

Ah yes, it's not poverty unless it is developing country level poverty. So you're OK with it even though the UK is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. You're fine with people not having enough to eat, being unable to afford to heat their homes, their children going to school without breakfast. You probably think they're all paying for Sky TV, spray tans and giant tellies. Am I right?

After the way they have completely mismanaged the NHS as well as Covid I could not in all conscience vote tory.

😂 I don’t recall “shouting” in caps?

There are so many factual inaccuracies in what you’ve written that I don’t even know where to start, I will assume it’s ignorance rather than pure stupidity.

You are wrong if you think society is functioning well, and there are many, many sources you could use to educate yourself on politics and what the conservatives have done to this country over the last 14 years if you so wish.

I don’t think you’re Tory scum for having a different opinion to me, I do think you’re Tory scum if you are challenged, refuse to educate yourself further and stand by the “I’m alright Jack” mentality that you are showing right now.

Come on, if you were living under those conditions what would you call it? Things being a bit tight?

No, this is not what I meant. The definition of poverty in that report is statistical and relative, i.e. children in families where the income after housing costs is below 60% of the median income. There are quite interesting honest findings as to why it was lower under the last Labour government, by the way - a direct quote from the report:

"From 2007/08 to 2010/11 there was a fall in child poverty, as the recession led to a reduction in median income."

Yay, child poverty is solved by simply reducing wages! Easy peasy then, I wonder why evil Conservatives did not think of that.

What is “poverty” then? How about 1 million children living in destitution? Is that OK?

Destitution is defined as the inability to meet basic physical needs to stay warm, dry, clean and fed, either because of a lack of clothing, heating, shelter or food, or because household income falls below a minimum level after housing costs – ranging from £95 a week for a single adult to £205 a week for a couple with two children.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/24/more-than-1-million-uk-children-experienced-destitution-last-year-study-finds

I lived that exact life when my children were small and I had childcare to pay. It was tight, but manageable.

Did you come here from an EU country?

Using the Freedom of Movement that the Tories have stopped?

I think you are trying to argue with someone else, and just misquoted me, or on a wrong thread. Because I said nothing about spray tans (?) or giant tellies (?) - not even sure what your train of thought was there and what the relevance here is?

If it was manageable then you weren’t in poverty

No, not from an EU country, did not use the freedom of movement.

You are talking about relative poverty.

Absolute poverty has also increased under this government - defined as not having enough to meet basic needs such as food and shelter.

I don’t even know why I’m trying to have a sensible conversation with someone who thinks the rise in child poverty is ok (over 700,000 children since they came into power) just because they had hard times previously too, or someone who thinks that the UK is functioning pretty well right now.

No True Scotsman (c)

I’m as GC as they come, but I won’t be voting Tory now or ever.

[Also, ‘I don’t understand NI politics’ is pathetic).

I hardly think that a Labour government will bear any similarities to Communism.

I am talking about the report that was posted above as a proof of how bad things have become. I quoted a direct metric used in that report for the poverty definition.

I think having conversations about important things is exactly how the society is supposed to improve. I am a numbers person, and quite skeptical and pragmatic in general. But of course, there is no obligation to engage if you don't feel like it. I don't find it very interesting to discuss with people who just shout slogans or resort to personal attacks, so ignore quite a few posters on the thread as well.

@zendeveloper

"The NHS is a mess because it is an outdated system that doesn't work anymore in the modern world, and keeping it for sentimental reasons is plainly stupid."
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What do you suggest replacing it with then? Because look to the US to see what nightmare you could end up with instead. People die because of a lack of access to care.